This makes me so angry. When are we going to take to the streets? When are we going to get out and march for our single sex rights. When are we going to make ourselves heard? When are we going to let the government and everyone know that enough is enough. There are still so many people who have no idea about any of this. We need to put aside our differences within the GC sector and demonstrate loudly
It’s appalling, wrong, but thankfully, largely an anomaly. But let’s not forget that men and boys get raped in men’s prisons with far greater frequency. As experiences go, one might even argue that anal rape of a heterosexual man is rather more grim. Sadly, we don’t have Julie in our corner. Or anyone really. It’s one of the least discussed scandals of statutory incarceration.
Sorry, I don't mean this agressively, but why is it more grim for men?
Arguably, a heterosexual man will not then have to experience anal intercourse voluntarily upon release, right? Whereas a hetero woman who has been raped and then falls in love with a man may be reminded of her assault every time she has loving sex with her boyfriend or husband. How is that not infinitely not more difficult? Also, the risk of having a pregnancy following a rape exposes women to much heavier consequences and charged decisions (abortion is not morally or emotionnaly neutral even for most people, even when pro-choice, and raising and loving a child produced by assault is probably extremely complicated).
I understand that you feel forced anal intercourse on a man (which, by the way can also happen to women) is more "unnatural" and that as most women enjoy intercourse with men it is more natural for them to be penetrated, but I think in many ways it manifests on your part a visioon of women as pure receptacles for penetration. If I have misunderstood, I am sorry and please explain.
A welcome comment on my post. The most important point I wanted to make was that rape is inestimably more common in men’s prisons. I am a bloke, but I am assuming that anal rape is more painful/unpleasant than vaginal rape. I’m ready to be corrected, but this assumption does not make me think less of women in any way. I might also venture that the emotional scarring of anal rape is arguably worse for a heterosexual man. However, I am ready to be disabused of this belief - and your comment goes some way to doing just that. That said, to make the assumption that I see women as pure receptacles of penetration is - frankly - weird and unfair.
Disclaimer: I was never raped, so my knowledge is theoretic at best.
From my understand, female physiology has in-built mechanisms to make vaginal rape less destructive, for the reason that women are and have been raped whith incomparable more frequency than men. Prison is the only context in which the majority more men are raped than women (not discussing child rape in the context of this conversation).
I don't minimize how scarring the event can be and most likely is for men in the moment and the immediate aftermath. However, this is not an act that they will be confronted with revisiting voluntarily in the course of building a love-life and family later on. For a woman who has been raped, if she wants to be a wife and mother, she will have to ingage in the same penetration that has been forced upon her. So in the moment she should be most connected to her husband and loved by him, she may experience shut down, dissociation, flash-backs, frigidity, etc. Even when she is able to enjoy a relatively normal sex life, it is still the same physiological space that is the locus of the trauma. It is the place through which her child will be born that has been violated.
However, this is not a competition. I've known two men who were anally raped as pre-teens. One got over it, the other did not. It also depends on if you had a stable, loving family, if you have a more stable temperament...
I didn't think you were thinking less of women, just perhaps not considering all ramifications. And perhaps because it is less frequent for men it becomes scarier for you as a man?
as for your last sentence, I apologize.I have been revisiting Andrea Long Chu's Females recently which infuriates me in the way he views women. I may have unfairly laid that onto your comment lol
It would seem fighting for the protection of men and boys in prison could be your life’s work. You would/do have many allies. Minimizing the rape of women as less grim makes solidarity with you impossible
Of course, rape of any kind is horrible. My aim was to highlight the frequency of male rape in prisons and the lack of discussion/awareness around this subject. I tried to make a case for anal rape as ‘worse’ than vaginal rape, but must accept that this is a subjective and highly complex matter that is very dependent on the victim, male or female. As a bloke, I fully accept I am not really qualified to make this call.
I feel compelled to comment. I wish that more men campaigned to end the sexual violation of other men in prison - I agree, it is commonplace. But that is because it is committed by OTHER MEN not women, and precisely why we do not want incarcerated (or any men) in women's prisons. It is not women's job to sort this out, but men. We have enough on our hands. Also, for all the reasons set out above by Galia, I reject your hierarchy of distress and pain model.
Not sure about that. It is society’s problem. Awareness, education, parenting and seeing in necessary changes are our collective responsibility. Indeed, more women need to be in charge and men have much to learn from them. But we need empathy for all victims of rape, as well as contempt and rage for the - inevitably male - perpetrators. While I’ve accepted it’s not a competition, you may not be in a better position than me to claim vaginal rape is any worse than anal male rape, not least in terms of its impact on victims. It’s probably an irrelevant discussion anyway?
Men are silent about male rape. Period. Of course, this is also the case for rape victims generally. Not least those who can’t identify a support network of any kind. But I would suggest that thinking and talking about it can serve to help any man to be more empathetic about rape generally.
I thought the Tories had stopped all men with penises and/or accused of sexual offences from being housed in women’s prisons. What happened to that?
This makes me so angry. When are we going to take to the streets? When are we going to get out and march for our single sex rights. When are we going to make ourselves heard? When are we going to let the government and everyone know that enough is enough. There are still so many people who have no idea about any of this. We need to put aside our differences within the GC sector and demonstrate loudly
this is a real problem here in new zealand too. men do not belong in women's prisons. ever.
It’s appalling, wrong, but thankfully, largely an anomaly. But let’s not forget that men and boys get raped in men’s prisons with far greater frequency. As experiences go, one might even argue that anal rape of a heterosexual man is rather more grim. Sadly, we don’t have Julie in our corner. Or anyone really. It’s one of the least discussed scandals of statutory incarceration.
Sorry, I don't mean this agressively, but why is it more grim for men?
Arguably, a heterosexual man will not then have to experience anal intercourse voluntarily upon release, right? Whereas a hetero woman who has been raped and then falls in love with a man may be reminded of her assault every time she has loving sex with her boyfriend or husband. How is that not infinitely not more difficult? Also, the risk of having a pregnancy following a rape exposes women to much heavier consequences and charged decisions (abortion is not morally or emotionnaly neutral even for most people, even when pro-choice, and raising and loving a child produced by assault is probably extremely complicated).
I understand that you feel forced anal intercourse on a man (which, by the way can also happen to women) is more "unnatural" and that as most women enjoy intercourse with men it is more natural for them to be penetrated, but I think in many ways it manifests on your part a visioon of women as pure receptacles for penetration. If I have misunderstood, I am sorry and please explain.
A welcome comment on my post. The most important point I wanted to make was that rape is inestimably more common in men’s prisons. I am a bloke, but I am assuming that anal rape is more painful/unpleasant than vaginal rape. I’m ready to be corrected, but this assumption does not make me think less of women in any way. I might also venture that the emotional scarring of anal rape is arguably worse for a heterosexual man. However, I am ready to be disabused of this belief - and your comment goes some way to doing just that. That said, to make the assumption that I see women as pure receptacles of penetration is - frankly - weird and unfair.
Disclaimer: I was never raped, so my knowledge is theoretic at best.
From my understand, female physiology has in-built mechanisms to make vaginal rape less destructive, for the reason that women are and have been raped whith incomparable more frequency than men. Prison is the only context in which the majority more men are raped than women (not discussing child rape in the context of this conversation).
I don't minimize how scarring the event can be and most likely is for men in the moment and the immediate aftermath. However, this is not an act that they will be confronted with revisiting voluntarily in the course of building a love-life and family later on. For a woman who has been raped, if she wants to be a wife and mother, she will have to ingage in the same penetration that has been forced upon her. So in the moment she should be most connected to her husband and loved by him, she may experience shut down, dissociation, flash-backs, frigidity, etc. Even when she is able to enjoy a relatively normal sex life, it is still the same physiological space that is the locus of the trauma. It is the place through which her child will be born that has been violated.
However, this is not a competition. I've known two men who were anally raped as pre-teens. One got over it, the other did not. It also depends on if you had a stable, loving family, if you have a more stable temperament...
I didn't think you were thinking less of women, just perhaps not considering all ramifications. And perhaps because it is less frequent for men it becomes scarier for you as a man?
as for your last sentence, I apologize.I have been revisiting Andrea Long Chu's Females recently which infuriates me in the way he views women. I may have unfairly laid that onto your comment lol
I wanted to apologise for my many typos and mistakes. I am very tired and also French. This is not an excuse, merely an explanation 😅
It would seem fighting for the protection of men and boys in prison could be your life’s work. You would/do have many allies. Minimizing the rape of women as less grim makes solidarity with you impossible
Of course, rape of any kind is horrible. My aim was to highlight the frequency of male rape in prisons and the lack of discussion/awareness around this subject. I tried to make a case for anal rape as ‘worse’ than vaginal rape, but must accept that this is a subjective and highly complex matter that is very dependent on the victim, male or female. As a bloke, I fully accept I am not really qualified to make this call.
I feel compelled to comment. I wish that more men campaigned to end the sexual violation of other men in prison - I agree, it is commonplace. But that is because it is committed by OTHER MEN not women, and precisely why we do not want incarcerated (or any men) in women's prisons. It is not women's job to sort this out, but men. We have enough on our hands. Also, for all the reasons set out above by Galia, I reject your hierarchy of distress and pain model.
Not sure about that. It is society’s problem. Awareness, education, parenting and seeing in necessary changes are our collective responsibility. Indeed, more women need to be in charge and men have much to learn from them. But we need empathy for all victims of rape, as well as contempt and rage for the - inevitably male - perpetrators. While I’ve accepted it’s not a competition, you may not be in a better position than me to claim vaginal rape is any worse than anal male rape, not least in terms of its impact on victims. It’s probably an irrelevant discussion anyway?
It's not up to women to sort it out, neither should vulnerable men put women at risk to reduce their risk of rape from other men.
Mem are deafeningly silent about this until women talk about the rape of women by men.
Men are silent about male rape. Period. Of course, this is also the case for rape victims generally. Not least those who can’t identify a support network of any kind. But I would suggest that thinking and talking about it can serve to help any man to be more empathetic about rape generally.