As his new book hits the shelves, Hayton has become the focus of yet another ruck amongst some factions of the "gender critical" lot (I refuse to use the term to define myself, I am simply a feminist)
This is a fascinating conversation. And all the better that it includes genuine challenge, discussion, and debate. You both come across as thoughtful and compassionate but determined to argue a case that matters deeply. Thank you
Thanks Julie. Good to hear you asking challenging questions. This is the only way forward in my view. Cancelling people for minor infractions of the party line won’t achieve an end to gender identity ideology. Sound analysis and respectful debate is far more likely to win support.
A fascinating & stimulating discussion. A perfect example of how we should be conducting this debate. Much to take away form this. Thank you, both of you, for demonstrating #yesdebate, and how to progress through the mire.
I remember hearing an interview with Debbie Hayton, and he spoke of being very distressed when he realized that girls could wear tights and he could not, because he was a boy. My question is: was he attracted to being a female, or was he attracted to being able to wear clothing that typically is associated with females?
Good question. And why did he find tights so attractive? Seems an interesting item to become obsessed with. I remember at around the age of five (late 1950s) being attracted to red nail polish but getting a clear message from my mother that nail polish was somehow shameful. A shop assistant was wearing it and my mother tut-tutted and said she was "common," her word for slutty. I definitely got the message that nice women (the type who went to church) didn't wear nail polish. If my mother had worn nail polish I can imagine that I would have sneakily put some on. I think shame is a very powerful emotion that can be triggered by all sorts of things and lead to weird psychological outcomes. I'll be very interested to read Gareth Roberts book, Gay Shame: The Rise of Gender Ideology and the New Homophobia, when it comes out. I have it on pre-order.
This is a fascinating conversation. And all the better that it includes genuine challenge, discussion, and debate. You both come across as thoughtful and compassionate but determined to argue a case that matters deeply. Thank you
Thanks Julie. Good to hear you asking challenging questions. This is the only way forward in my view. Cancelling people for minor infractions of the party line won’t achieve an end to gender identity ideology. Sound analysis and respectful debate is far more likely to win support.
A fascinating & stimulating discussion. A perfect example of how we should be conducting this debate. Much to take away form this. Thank you, both of you, for demonstrating #yesdebate, and how to progress through the mire.
Brilliant and courageous, both. So good I listened twice, so much food for thought. Thank you for doing this, Julie x
I remember hearing an interview with Debbie Hayton, and he spoke of being very distressed when he realized that girls could wear tights and he could not, because he was a boy. My question is: was he attracted to being a female, or was he attracted to being able to wear clothing that typically is associated with females?
Good question. And why did he find tights so attractive? Seems an interesting item to become obsessed with. I remember at around the age of five (late 1950s) being attracted to red nail polish but getting a clear message from my mother that nail polish was somehow shameful. A shop assistant was wearing it and my mother tut-tutted and said she was "common," her word for slutty. I definitely got the message that nice women (the type who went to church) didn't wear nail polish. If my mother had worn nail polish I can imagine that I would have sneakily put some on. I think shame is a very powerful emotion that can be triggered by all sorts of things and lead to weird psychological outcomes. I'll be very interested to read Gareth Roberts book, Gay Shame: The Rise of Gender Ideology and the New Homophobia, when it comes out. I have it on pre-order.
That was extraordinarily enlightening, many thanks for inviting Debbie onto your podcast.
Amazing interview.
I liked it to Debbie.