Julie, in 2020 Elizabeth Hobson, 33, https://j4mb.org.uk/elizabeth-hobson-2-2/ (party leader at the time) and I interviewed a delightful and hilarious 40-something OnlyFans woman, "Miss Matthews". She provided the title for the video, "My 25 Wonderful Years as a Sex Worker":
She utterly refuted feminist narratives on sex work, telling us that in 25 years as a sex worker she'd encountered a huge number of others, not one of whom fitted the pimped stereotype you and other radfems pump out relentlessly.
In the immortal words of Dr Belinda Brooks-Gordon, an academic and author of the book "The Price of Sex", in a discussion on BBC Newsnight in 2014, "It's only sex, it's only money". The video:
Julie, here's an idea. Straight men and women in the West don't tell gay men and lesbians how to conduct their sex lives. How about radical feminists - especially the lesbians, including yourself - reciprocate and butt out of telling straight men and women how to conduct THEIR sex lives? Thank you.
Obviously you must have missed the vast number of girls and women that have spoken of the contrary experiences.
You seem keen on wanting people to look to your point of view, as most actually have done, how about you do the same and listen to girls and women who have not been in the minimal percentage of “sex workers” that have had a “good” experience-the majority.
This isn’t about lesbians butting into our straighties lives, it’s a women that have experiences either directly or indirectly the effecta of p0rn, pr0stitution and the attitudes and psychological effects it has done on mens attitudes and behaviours towards women.
All women, you see.
It i directly affects ALL women and men, but the most harm and worst consequences drops onto women.
So do take your own advice and listen to those actually affected by it, not just the most minimal percentage you want to hear from, and which Julie and so many others already have mentioned (like in this piece the mentioning of the utterly ridiculous small percentage of OF-women that actually get money from it, we see it, we recognise it AND we recognise that MOST women get near to nothing plus much harm instead-you know like the stalkers etc mentioned here)
Nobody is forcing women into porn or prostitution. Plenty of other fields in which they could earn plenty of money, they enter these fields because they want a lot of money for little or no effort. Gullibility probably pays a part, too.
Women need to exhibit the same moral agency as is demanded of men, and hold themselves - and other women - responsible for their actions and inactions. This relentless victimisation and self-pity (world to end, women most affected) puts women on the same level as children - Laura Bates comes inevitably to mind - where so many are clearly happy to remain, sometimes for their entire lives.
Again I see you talking of your belief, this time that no one is forcing women into this.
You could also listen to all the many women who tell that they ARE.
Forced, coerced, manipulated, groomed, amd through the norms basically formed for it through the cultures reward-system.
Women aren’t children, but everybody’s been a child-experiences through the formative years matters a LOT in creating behavioural patterns. You see the same in men too, but from another angle.
And, men do treat women as lesser minded, so often, devalue what we are, what we feel, and (quite like you here) BELITTLE our told experiences.
But of course, you can choose to believe without listening to women who actually live this.
But, that is just a belief.
I do think you, and you all men too have the responsibility for your actions-and that means to also listen to those that have been affected by men’s actions and inactions- women.
When men carry their own moral agency and accept they actually have not experienced the worlds treatment as a woman has-and start seeing how they themselves add on to it we’ll probably get somewhere.
It tells quite a lit of where we still are in that process when men choose not to listen and take seriously when women talk of this for example, and when men throw around the odd “pro sexwork”-tales that exist to “prove” something to women who actually know better.
I’d recommend you to do some pro-bono work in places where the worst affected women of this man made trade are to get a grip of the reality - but sadly I think your attitude in such a place would do more harm than help.
Luckily there’s a lot of resources you can read, listen to and watch too if you are actually interested in bettering the world.
Have a good day, and hope you find a way to listen to people that are out of your bubble too, a good start is here, so good on you for that (just remember to actually read the article before commenting-based on your comments I have a feeling you didn’t do that as you basically commented with what was already touched on in Julies text: that few do money on this, and most get harmed, but the business (steered by MEN btw) keeps up an illusion of big bucks.
Thanks Elinda, interesting. Based on your comments, I think you'd enjoy the YouTube content of Pearl Davis, a 26yo American who came to London two years ago and now has almost 1.6 MILLION subscribers. She talks very insighfully about relationships, taking personal respoinsibility for choices etc. Her channel is "JustPearlyThings". Enjoy:
Thank you for the watch, problem is that this is exactly what is criticised in the “industry”.
Also in Julies text here.
As, if you’ve actually read and listened to what you are commenting about.
A millipercent makes money, the rest are treated like livestock and less, grey market expands with any type of sc.white market.
I’ve actually followed the “pro” side for a long time - and originally that was exactly what made me dig into this reasoningJulie etc provides instead-the pro-side wasn’t humane, psychologically logical or empathetic to variables (f.ex. socio-economical aspects, cultural, power-imbalances) affecting all.
It was simply too thin in arguments and research, and attacking actual survivors of the “trade” showed a bile attitude to people with differing opinions.
That actually should wake people up: TRADE. Sex TRADE.
Only in this trade you aren’t the worker, you are the product.
And the buyers are the problem, they see you as such. Men are the buyers statistics show.
Men also created the system, and men are the ones making most money off it.
Men also do not really want “their” women to “work” in the “trade”, if they are not pimps-those coerce and manipulate women into the “trade”.
In OF those actually making money are not the “entertainers”, it is OF.
Hope you continue to follow Julie and at some point actually listen in on what women and survivors of the “sex” trade actually speak about and statistics show.
Just need to look at Germany or India to get a more realistic grip.
Have a great day and see if you can expand your bubble with following places like Nordic Model Now, WDI and such.
And it still is quite belittling to talk over actual women, people working with affected women (and men), and give examples of the few ones making something - those used as marketing pillars.
If you claim women should be treated as responsible adults start doing so yourself: take us seriously also in matters where you have NO experience in but a different belief/opinion.
Because where’s the validity of your point otherwise?
Taking an example that is not representing the majority of people, and/or who does not have or have been given f.ex the information and facts about the whole system /phenomena is shaky grounds.
I promise you that I could easily find a privileged or imbalanced MAN saying something about you men and what should be done to you because of the issues and problems tour behaviour creates - that would state something ludicrous and out of touch with both reality, research and the groups actual experiences.
And you would not like that man representing you, and it would probably feel quite illogical to you as well as unfair.
I hope you see how your misrepresentation here aligns with that thought.
No. Men AND women like it, so it should stay. Why do lesbians think they have a right to interfere in the sex lives - in whatever forms - of straight men and women?
Thanks Mikalina, it's not unreasonable to hate feminists, I consider it a civic duty as well as laughing at them, as I do at Laughing at Feminists http://laughingatfeminists.com.
Feminists for 170+ years (since at least the Seneca Falls convention) have pursued female supremacy, they've done all in their power to destroy civilized society, the family, and wrecked the lives of countless men, women and children.
Every feminist narrative is one or more of the following - a baseless conspiracy theory (e.g. patriarchy), fantasy, lie, delusion or myth.
40+ Miss Matthews's sex work has financed her property portfolio, catch the video interview (link above). Why, those exploitative men who've paid for that portfolio (many of them, surely, poor and/or unattractive to women)!!!
I think what REALLY gets lesbians riled is the in-your-face evidence (from porn and prostitution) of women's (and especially attractive women's) power over men, which they don't have. They're jealous, so they seek power over men in the political field, where they've succeeded, surely beyond their wildest dreams (to the detriment of most, including women). Hey, it's almost like there's no patriarchy. If there is one, how has Julie Bindel managed to have a decades-long career out of tired old feminist narratives, and why do Gender Studies courses exist? It's a mystery, all right...
Feminists have won all their battles despite having no demographic legitimacy, yet over the period that's happened, women have become ever less happy. Hmm, might explain why a report - Sex Equality: State of the Nation - by The Fawcett Society in 2016 showed (following their commissioned survey) that only 9% of British women and 4% of British women self-identified as feminists:
Wow, Cuba sounds like a paradise, just like all the other socialist republics countless people risked their lives leaving for a better life. "Prostitution in Cuba is not specifically illegal" - the opening words of the Wiki entry on the subject.
Of course. The difference is they don't emigrate to socialist countries, for obvious reasons. The flow of emigrants is always to capitalist countries. Hell, no socialist country ever managed to manufacture a car anyone would want to buy, given the choice of a car from a capitalist country. Why do socialists imagine they can create a better society? Every time they've tried, it's been a dismal failure, and always will be.
you rock. thank you once again.
Thank you JB, spot on as usual!
Hello Julie and thanks for keeping these articles available free of charge for the time being.
Julie, in 2020 Elizabeth Hobson, 33, https://j4mb.org.uk/elizabeth-hobson-2-2/ (party leader at the time) and I interviewed a delightful and hilarious 40-something OnlyFans woman, "Miss Matthews". She provided the title for the video, "My 25 Wonderful Years as a Sex Worker":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmXcA9pxQR0
She utterly refuted feminist narratives on sex work, telling us that in 25 years as a sex worker she'd encountered a huge number of others, not one of whom fitted the pimped stereotype you and other radfems pump out relentlessly.
In the immortal words of Dr Belinda Brooks-Gordon, an academic and author of the book "The Price of Sex", in a discussion on BBC Newsnight in 2014, "It's only sex, it's only money". The video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpPpENfWRdk
Julie, here's an idea. Straight men and women in the West don't tell gay men and lesbians how to conduct their sex lives. How about radical feminists - especially the lesbians, including yourself - reciprocate and butt out of telling straight men and women how to conduct THEIR sex lives? Thank you.
Mike Buchanan
JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS
http://j4mb.org.uk
Obviously you must have missed the vast number of girls and women that have spoken of the contrary experiences.
You seem keen on wanting people to look to your point of view, as most actually have done, how about you do the same and listen to girls and women who have not been in the minimal percentage of “sex workers” that have had a “good” experience-the majority.
This isn’t about lesbians butting into our straighties lives, it’s a women that have experiences either directly or indirectly the effecta of p0rn, pr0stitution and the attitudes and psychological effects it has done on mens attitudes and behaviours towards women.
All women, you see.
It i directly affects ALL women and men, but the most harm and worst consequences drops onto women.
So do take your own advice and listen to those actually affected by it, not just the most minimal percentage you want to hear from, and which Julie and so many others already have mentioned (like in this piece the mentioning of the utterly ridiculous small percentage of OF-women that actually get money from it, we see it, we recognise it AND we recognise that MOST women get near to nothing plus much harm instead-you know like the stalkers etc mentioned here)
Nobody is forcing women into porn or prostitution. Plenty of other fields in which they could earn plenty of money, they enter these fields because they want a lot of money for little or no effort. Gullibility probably pays a part, too.
Women need to exhibit the same moral agency as is demanded of men, and hold themselves - and other women - responsible for their actions and inactions. This relentless victimisation and self-pity (world to end, women most affected) puts women on the same level as children - Laura Bates comes inevitably to mind - where so many are clearly happy to remain, sometimes for their entire lives.
Again I see you talking of your belief, this time that no one is forcing women into this.
You could also listen to all the many women who tell that they ARE.
Forced, coerced, manipulated, groomed, amd through the norms basically formed for it through the cultures reward-system.
Women aren’t children, but everybody’s been a child-experiences through the formative years matters a LOT in creating behavioural patterns. You see the same in men too, but from another angle.
And, men do treat women as lesser minded, so often, devalue what we are, what we feel, and (quite like you here) BELITTLE our told experiences.
But of course, you can choose to believe without listening to women who actually live this.
But, that is just a belief.
I do think you, and you all men too have the responsibility for your actions-and that means to also listen to those that have been affected by men’s actions and inactions- women.
When men carry their own moral agency and accept they actually have not experienced the worlds treatment as a woman has-and start seeing how they themselves add on to it we’ll probably get somewhere.
It tells quite a lit of where we still are in that process when men choose not to listen and take seriously when women talk of this for example, and when men throw around the odd “pro sexwork”-tales that exist to “prove” something to women who actually know better.
I’d recommend you to do some pro-bono work in places where the worst affected women of this man made trade are to get a grip of the reality - but sadly I think your attitude in such a place would do more harm than help.
Luckily there’s a lot of resources you can read, listen to and watch too if you are actually interested in bettering the world.
Have a good day, and hope you find a way to listen to people that are out of your bubble too, a good start is here, so good on you for that (just remember to actually read the article before commenting-based on your comments I have a feeling you didn’t do that as you basically commented with what was already touched on in Julies text: that few do money on this, and most get harmed, but the business (steered by MEN btw) keeps up an illusion of big bucks.
Thanks Elinda, interesting. Based on your comments, I think you'd enjoy the YouTube content of Pearl Davis, a 26yo American who came to London two years ago and now has almost 1.6 MILLION subscribers. She talks very insighfully about relationships, taking personal respoinsibility for choices etc. Her channel is "JustPearlyThings". Enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/@JustPearlyThings/videos
Thank you for the watch, problem is that this is exactly what is criticised in the “industry”.
Also in Julies text here.
As, if you’ve actually read and listened to what you are commenting about.
A millipercent makes money, the rest are treated like livestock and less, grey market expands with any type of sc.white market.
I’ve actually followed the “pro” side for a long time - and originally that was exactly what made me dig into this reasoningJulie etc provides instead-the pro-side wasn’t humane, psychologically logical or empathetic to variables (f.ex. socio-economical aspects, cultural, power-imbalances) affecting all.
It was simply too thin in arguments and research, and attacking actual survivors of the “trade” showed a bile attitude to people with differing opinions.
That actually should wake people up: TRADE. Sex TRADE.
Only in this trade you aren’t the worker, you are the product.
And the buyers are the problem, they see you as such. Men are the buyers statistics show.
Men also created the system, and men are the ones making most money off it.
Men also do not really want “their” women to “work” in the “trade”, if they are not pimps-those coerce and manipulate women into the “trade”.
In OF those actually making money are not the “entertainers”, it is OF.
Hope you continue to follow Julie and at some point actually listen in on what women and survivors of the “sex” trade actually speak about and statistics show.
Just need to look at Germany or India to get a more realistic grip.
Have a great day and see if you can expand your bubble with following places like Nordic Model Now, WDI and such.
And it still is quite belittling to talk over actual women, people working with affected women (and men), and give examples of the few ones making something - those used as marketing pillars.
If you claim women should be treated as responsible adults start doing so yourself: take us seriously also in matters where you have NO experience in but a different belief/opinion.
Because where’s the validity of your point otherwise?
I have to add yet:
Taking an example that is not representing the majority of people, and/or who does not have or have been given f.ex the information and facts about the whole system /phenomena is shaky grounds.
I promise you that I could easily find a privileged or imbalanced MAN saying something about you men and what should be done to you because of the issues and problems tour behaviour creates - that would state something ludicrous and out of touch with both reality, research and the groups actual experiences.
And you would not like that man representing you, and it would probably feel quite illogical to you as well as unfair.
I hope you see how your misrepresentation here aligns with that thought.
Here's your answer Julie - men like it, so it stays.
No. Men AND women like it, so it should stay. Why do lesbians think they have a right to interfere in the sex lives - in whatever forms - of straight men and women?
Jeezus Mike, you're fast!! Haters really do be the biggest fans - don't forget to like and share!
Thanks Mikalina, it's not unreasonable to hate feminists, I consider it a civic duty as well as laughing at them, as I do at Laughing at Feminists http://laughingatfeminists.com.
Feminists for 170+ years (since at least the Seneca Falls convention) have pursued female supremacy, they've done all in their power to destroy civilized society, the family, and wrecked the lives of countless men, women and children.
Every feminist narrative is one or more of the following - a baseless conspiracy theory (e.g. patriarchy), fantasy, lie, delusion or myth.
Already shared on our website:
https://j4mb.org.uk/2023/07/15/julie-bindel-why-is-anyone-still-defending-onlyfans/
Have a nice day.
OT but has anyone here ever wondered why single father households do vastly better than single mother households? Elicia Jane explains:
https://medium.com/the-knowledge-of-freedom/single-father-households-do-vastly-better-than-single-mother-heres-the-real-reason-why-8a7fd7c5611d
40+ Miss Matthews's sex work has financed her property portfolio, catch the video interview (link above). Why, those exploitative men who've paid for that portfolio (many of them, surely, poor and/or unattractive to women)!!!
I think what REALLY gets lesbians riled is the in-your-face evidence (from porn and prostitution) of women's (and especially attractive women's) power over men, which they don't have. They're jealous, so they seek power over men in the political field, where they've succeeded, surely beyond their wildest dreams (to the detriment of most, including women). Hey, it's almost like there's no patriarchy. If there is one, how has Julie Bindel managed to have a decades-long career out of tired old feminist narratives, and why do Gender Studies courses exist? It's a mystery, all right...
Feminists have won all their battles despite having no demographic legitimacy, yet over the period that's happened, women have become ever less happy. Hmm, might explain why a report - Sex Equality: State of the Nation - by The Fawcett Society in 2016 showed (following their commissioned survey) that only 9% of British women and 4% of British women self-identified as feminists:
https://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/sex-equality-state-of-the-nation-2016
Wow, Cuba sounds like a paradise, just like all the other socialist republics countless people risked their lives leaving for a better life. "Prostitution in Cuba is not specifically illegal" - the opening words of the Wiki entry on the subject.
Of course. The difference is they don't emigrate to socialist countries, for obvious reasons. The flow of emigrants is always to capitalist countries. Hell, no socialist country ever managed to manufacture a car anyone would want to buy, given the choice of a car from a capitalist country. Why do socialists imagine they can create a better society? Every time they've tried, it's been a dismal failure, and always will be.