In 2014, I travelled to an evangelical Christian 'therapy centre' in Colorado, undercover, posing as an unhappy lesbian who was desperate to reconcile with my parents, and the church. It was horrific.
Being able to glom onto LGB was the Trans movement’s greatest trick, wasn’t it. Muddying the waters that sexuality and gender ideology are the same. Without that parasitism, their movement withers
The tragic irony is that , presumably, many people try gay conversion therapy specifically to reconnect with their religious families. And here is a "therapist" who is doing everything she can to put the blame on parents and burn whatever bridges are still there. Any therapist who starts off by blaming the parents is a dangerous quack and reminds me of the recovered memories scandal.
See my response above. Some dirtbags so wanted me to have been a victim of sexual abuse by my father and tried "recovered memory" exercises. The bullying and threats I endured as an adult caused me much stress and made me queasy thinking of the damage done to children who've had to endure this evil, as in the Satanic Panic scandal.
Hi Julie, There are all too many obsessional people out there. With occasional exceptions, the great majority are very damaging.
Its possible that they are damaged in some way, but our psychology is still very early.
The very word psychology comes from the word psyche, but I'll bet that not one psychologist in a 100 could give you a halfway adequate discussion as to what a human psyche is.
Trust you've recovered from your obsessional attacker. Ian
I’m sorry you had to put yourself through this, Julie, but I’m sure it will help in the fight to distinguish between proper CBT (good!) and “trans conversion therapy” (bad!).
I really have NO attachment to Christianity or heterosexuality for that matter, but this didn't turn out to be the expose you thought it would, I dont think. There was no yelling, no physical abuse, no one is forced to be there, and no one is really even trying to change anyone's sexuality as far as I could tell -- they're trying to help people change their sexual *behavior* who came there specifically because they want to change their behavior. The theory that homosexuality comes from trauma is not one I believe in, either, but we have to admit that no one actually knows what homosexuality comes from. So, it's not shocking that there are different theories out there, and it's hard to truly classify them as some form of thought crime when, again, the science is so unformed and there is no actual scientific consensus. (I personally don't think we need a scientific answer to this question, but nonetheless)
If you look at a scatter graph of male and female hormones you’ll see a huge disparity. Heterosexuals are in a band in the middle. But there are people whose hormones are very very different. They tried “fixing” it with “hormone therapy”. Does NOT work. Drove the WW2 hero Alan Turing to suicide.
I normally like Julie's work but I am skeptical of certain aspects of the story. Especially in places like Colorado, American conversion groups have to be really careful about how they go about these conversations. It's unbelievable, even in 2014, that a therapist would say "you must have endured this" instead of "it's possible that trauma relates to unhealthy childhood experiences".
That said, as a Christian who does believe that conversion therapy should be available for those who choose it, I think the conversations should gently allow patients to consider their feelings/preferences relative to their Christian faith, without judgment or drastic remedies.
She was not a trained therapist - a fake one, only 'trained' in homophobia and evangelism - so she was not needing to be 'careful'. I recorded her, secretly, because of her total disingenuous nature
Too many in counseling, even licensed counselors, are full of bias and will become very aggressive trying to prove their assumptions. There're also too many who seem to want women to be victims that need rescuing, by them of course. I swear they want to see every woman to be a survivor of sexual abuse in the family. I have direct experience with this while in a class for addictions counselors. As part of the class, we were to go through "counseling" on our issues, but two of us (me and another woman) were bullied and threatened to agree with the stories they made up for us. Their fantasy was that I had been raped by my father. That was not one of his problems. The other woman was told she had PTSD from helping during 9/11 in NYC and seeing all the bodies. She had zero signs of PTSD and told me she had seen plenty of bodies as her sister was a mortician. She decided to go along to be able to graduate from the course. Being a defiant type and unable to go along with a lie, I told them to pack sand, but the threats and bullying rained down on me are in my memory. If the "therapy" is named "conversion therapy," it's wrong. A counselor or therapist is there to help a client understand the influences in their life and make their own choice for themselves on the outcomes of their choices.
I agree with Oscar, a tough read. Julie, that sounds like terrible experience you put yourself through. Thank you for putting yourself in the firing line and reporting on it.
A tough read.
Being able to glom onto LGB was the Trans movement’s greatest trick, wasn’t it. Muddying the waters that sexuality and gender ideology are the same. Without that parasitism, their movement withers
The tragic irony is that , presumably, many people try gay conversion therapy specifically to reconnect with their religious families. And here is a "therapist" who is doing everything she can to put the blame on parents and burn whatever bridges are still there. Any therapist who starts off by blaming the parents is a dangerous quack and reminds me of the recovered memories scandal.
See my response above. Some dirtbags so wanted me to have been a victim of sexual abuse by my father and tried "recovered memory" exercises. The bullying and threats I endured as an adult caused me much stress and made me queasy thinking of the damage done to children who've had to endure this evil, as in the Satanic Panic scandal.
Hi Julie, There are all too many obsessional people out there. With occasional exceptions, the great majority are very damaging.
Its possible that they are damaged in some way, but our psychology is still very early.
The very word psychology comes from the word psyche, but I'll bet that not one psychologist in a 100 could give you a halfway adequate discussion as to what a human psyche is.
Trust you've recovered from your obsessional attacker. Ian
So it’s the same as CBT then /s
🤬
I’m sorry you had to put yourself through this, Julie, but I’m sure it will help in the fight to distinguish between proper CBT (good!) and “trans conversion therapy” (bad!).
I really have NO attachment to Christianity or heterosexuality for that matter, but this didn't turn out to be the expose you thought it would, I dont think. There was no yelling, no physical abuse, no one is forced to be there, and no one is really even trying to change anyone's sexuality as far as I could tell -- they're trying to help people change their sexual *behavior* who came there specifically because they want to change their behavior. The theory that homosexuality comes from trauma is not one I believe in, either, but we have to admit that no one actually knows what homosexuality comes from. So, it's not shocking that there are different theories out there, and it's hard to truly classify them as some form of thought crime when, again, the science is so unformed and there is no actual scientific consensus. (I personally don't think we need a scientific answer to this question, but nonetheless)
If you look at a scatter graph of male and female hormones you’ll see a huge disparity. Heterosexuals are in a band in the middle. But there are people whose hormones are very very different. They tried “fixing” it with “hormone therapy”. Does NOT work. Drove the WW2 hero Alan Turing to suicide.
🖤
I normally like Julie's work but I am skeptical of certain aspects of the story. Especially in places like Colorado, American conversion groups have to be really careful about how they go about these conversations. It's unbelievable, even in 2014, that a therapist would say "you must have endured this" instead of "it's possible that trauma relates to unhealthy childhood experiences".
That said, as a Christian who does believe that conversion therapy should be available for those who choose it, I think the conversations should gently allow patients to consider their feelings/preferences relative to their Christian faith, without judgment or drastic remedies.
She was not a trained therapist - a fake one, only 'trained' in homophobia and evangelism - so she was not needing to be 'careful'. I recorded her, secretly, because of her total disingenuous nature
Too many in counseling, even licensed counselors, are full of bias and will become very aggressive trying to prove their assumptions. There're also too many who seem to want women to be victims that need rescuing, by them of course. I swear they want to see every woman to be a survivor of sexual abuse in the family. I have direct experience with this while in a class for addictions counselors. As part of the class, we were to go through "counseling" on our issues, but two of us (me and another woman) were bullied and threatened to agree with the stories they made up for us. Their fantasy was that I had been raped by my father. That was not one of his problems. The other woman was told she had PTSD from helping during 9/11 in NYC and seeing all the bodies. She had zero signs of PTSD and told me she had seen plenty of bodies as her sister was a mortician. She decided to go along to be able to graduate from the course. Being a defiant type and unable to go along with a lie, I told them to pack sand, but the threats and bullying rained down on me are in my memory. If the "therapy" is named "conversion therapy," it's wrong. A counselor or therapist is there to help a client understand the influences in their life and make their own choice for themselves on the outcomes of their choices.
I agree with Oscar, a tough read. Julie, that sounds like terrible experience you put yourself through. Thank you for putting yourself in the firing line and reporting on it.