Black face is offensive because it parodies black people and has its origins in a deeply racist time in the past. Women face parodies women and has its origins in a deeply misogynistic time in the past, but we are expected to pretend to enjoy being portrayed in this hateful way, and if we don't then we're homophobes and prudes and we're beating up on gay men.
I just want to say, (secretly on the internet, something that I'd be too frightened to say in public under my own name) that I find woman face offensive. I find it demeaning to and hateful of me as a woman. I have always secretly intensely disliked drag queens, but it wasn't until I heard someone call it woman face (was that you Julie, or possibly it was Kathleen Stock or JKR?) that I had the language and the concepts to explain my discomfort and sense of offense.
I was about to make a similar comment. Blackface used to be acceptable (Olivier’s Othello, even the Minstrels in their day, as Lenny Henry might agree) Not so nowadays. So it is with many drag acts all too often gruesome parodies that reek of misogyny. Indeed, gay men need to take some responsibility for prolonging a joke that’s just no longer appropriate or even funny.
'The performers parody lap dancers and strippers ...'
Unfortunately, the performers sometimes ARE lap dancers and strippers. In a parallel with trans ideology, the problem is not that being a drag act in front of children makes you a paedophile or a pervert. It's that the opportunity to be a drag act in front of children is one that is patently going to be attractive to paedophiles and perverts. And, as numerous news stories have demonstrated, vetting the suitability of those who put themselves forward to undertake these roles is often lax at best. Merely identifying yourself as a drag act appears to give you a free pass to perform in front of children at these events, and it really, really shouldn't.
My recollection of the 80s and 90s is that even then drag was considered by most ‘right on’ gay men to be misogynistic and offensive. No self-respecting political (woke?) gay men would have admitted then to liking or approving of it. The acts varied enormously but the ones appearing in pubs and clubs in Leeds (maybe with the exception of Lily Savage at The New Penny) weren’t something to be admired. As a gay man I find it strange that the stereotyped image of gay men which we fought against in the 70s and 80s are now the ones often promoted.
I've always found drag sort of a drag too, and much moreso these days. A friend related a story recently about going to a county fair sort of thing and seeing a drag show that clearly had much more to do with the traditions of traveling circus—and stripping—than the origins of drag in the gay world. Of course, things change, and drag always did share a lot of DNA with burlesque, but I agree with you that it's become a parody of itself now. That said, I know another friend whose brother is gay, a successful actor, and he's currently doing a major drag show. I wonder what he has to say about drag. I suppose I'll ask him. Cheers to you and your writing, great work!
I've always been furious about the general assumption that men make better women than women (Tootsie? Mrs Doubtfire?) but my thoughts about gay drag have been more blurry. After all, what's more sexy than a butch dyke in a sharp suit? Thank you Julie, for clarifying my thoughts.
Black face is offensive because it parodies black people and has its origins in a deeply racist time in the past. Women face parodies women and has its origins in a deeply misogynistic time in the past, but we are expected to pretend to enjoy being portrayed in this hateful way, and if we don't then we're homophobes and prudes and we're beating up on gay men.
I just want to say, (secretly on the internet, something that I'd be too frightened to say in public under my own name) that I find woman face offensive. I find it demeaning to and hateful of me as a woman. I have always secretly intensely disliked drag queens, but it wasn't until I heard someone call it woman face (was that you Julie, or possibly it was Kathleen Stock or JKR?) that I had the language and the concepts to explain my discomfort and sense of offense.
I was about to make a similar comment. Blackface used to be acceptable (Olivier’s Othello, even the Minstrels in their day, as Lenny Henry might agree) Not so nowadays. So it is with many drag acts all too often gruesome parodies that reek of misogyny. Indeed, gay men need to take some responsibility for prolonging a joke that’s just no longer appropriate or even funny.
'The performers parody lap dancers and strippers ...'
Unfortunately, the performers sometimes ARE lap dancers and strippers. In a parallel with trans ideology, the problem is not that being a drag act in front of children makes you a paedophile or a pervert. It's that the opportunity to be a drag act in front of children is one that is patently going to be attractive to paedophiles and perverts. And, as numerous news stories have demonstrated, vetting the suitability of those who put themselves forward to undertake these roles is often lax at best. Merely identifying yourself as a drag act appears to give you a free pass to perform in front of children at these events, and it really, really shouldn't.
My recollection of the 80s and 90s is that even then drag was considered by most ‘right on’ gay men to be misogynistic and offensive. No self-respecting political (woke?) gay men would have admitted then to liking or approving of it. The acts varied enormously but the ones appearing in pubs and clubs in Leeds (maybe with the exception of Lily Savage at The New Penny) weren’t something to be admired. As a gay man I find it strange that the stereotyped image of gay men which we fought against in the 70s and 80s are now the ones often promoted.
Offensive
I've always found drag sort of a drag too, and much moreso these days. A friend related a story recently about going to a county fair sort of thing and seeing a drag show that clearly had much more to do with the traditions of traveling circus—and stripping—than the origins of drag in the gay world. Of course, things change, and drag always did share a lot of DNA with burlesque, but I agree with you that it's become a parody of itself now. That said, I know another friend whose brother is gay, a successful actor, and he's currently doing a major drag show. I wonder what he has to say about drag. I suppose I'll ask him. Cheers to you and your writing, great work!
I am not qualified to comment on any other parts of your story, but Samsung is a Korean company, with its HQ in South Korea.
I used to enjoy drag.. or tried to. It's poison and should go the way of the giant auk.
I've come to a position that views drag as analogous to blackface and am done with it.
I also have a great sense of humor but I'm done taking the high road; now I take the psycho path.
I've always been furious about the general assumption that men make better women than women (Tootsie? Mrs Doubtfire?) but my thoughts about gay drag have been more blurry. After all, what's more sexy than a butch dyke in a sharp suit? Thank you Julie, for clarifying my thoughts.