A 'client' is a john, a 'manager' is a pimp, and 'sex work' is neither sex nor work. Prostitution, puntering and pimping need to be named to be understood
Well done Julie. Your indomitable and constant presence is a thorn in the side of all those who rejoice at the exploitation of women’s bodies. I hope this convinces others that the sexual abuse of women for the pleasure of men is a human rights abuse, however you dress it up.
Well said. When I worked with abused women, I worked with a few who had been/were being prostituted. None wanted the "work" and were coerced into it with violence and threats. Meeting these women showed me just how abusive this odious trade is for women and girls.
In 2017 I went back to university, studying for a MA in criminology. I was horrified to find that when looking at the international differences in legislation around prostitution, I was the only student out of a group of around 30 students, that spoke against prostitution (I got my worst mark for that assignment)!
Hi Joanna, So you were apparently marked down for having an unpopular opinion about the nastiness of prostitution to the women concerned? I had a parallel experience when I quoted a very brilliant man called Alexander Leontiev in an essay, only to be told that 'Leontiev is not part of the academic discussion'. Well! Ian Mordant
Just heard a POWERFUL debate on whether the US should decriminalize prostitution....Melanie Thompson makes the case very beautifully that this is a system of exploitation based on racism, colonialism and of course misogyny....check it out:
Hi Julie, Could I suggest you say which country or countries have the least bad policies on this, and some evidence that prostitutes or former prostitutes are now better off because of these least bad policies.
Anyone who uses terms like "forced sex work" or "juvenile sex work" is evil. My only other comment is I strongly suspect being prostituted is awful and probably damages the prostituted person. I agree with Julie Bindel and I do not think prostitution can be compared to a normal job because normal jobs do not harm the person preforming them.
Some of your points are very well taken, but you’re an extremist. There’s no nuance in your arguments. The opposition is dead wrong. You undermine your credibility by pushing your arguments to the extreme. Some women (usually middle class) do choose to be sex workers. They’d rather be escorts a few times a week than work 12 hour restaurant shifts. They’re not run by pimps. They are a minority but you barely acknowledge them, because their reality undermines your model. You’re obviously a fierce warrior, and full props for that. I’m just saying that a less militant approach in a forum such as this might win more people over to your causes.
Hi Frank, Even on your terms these woman to do prostitution to avoid '12 hour restaurant shifts' to use your words are being heavily pressurized by these work conditions. Your argument is not false, but it is very narrow. Ian Mordant
Well done Julie. Your indomitable and constant presence is a thorn in the side of all those who rejoice at the exploitation of women’s bodies. I hope this convinces others that the sexual abuse of women for the pleasure of men is a human rights abuse, however you dress it up.
Well said. When I worked with abused women, I worked with a few who had been/were being prostituted. None wanted the "work" and were coerced into it with violence and threats. Meeting these women showed me just how abusive this odious trade is for women and girls.
In 2017 I went back to university, studying for a MA in criminology. I was horrified to find that when looking at the international differences in legislation around prostitution, I was the only student out of a group of around 30 students, that spoke against prostitution (I got my worst mark for that assignment)!
Hi Joanna, So you were apparently marked down for having an unpopular opinion about the nastiness of prostitution to the women concerned? I had a parallel experience when I quoted a very brilliant man called Alexander Leontiev in an essay, only to be told that 'Leontiev is not part of the academic discussion'. Well! Ian Mordant
Couldn't agree more!
Just heard a POWERFUL debate on whether the US should decriminalize prostitution....Melanie Thompson makes the case very beautifully that this is a system of exploitation based on racism, colonialism and of course misogyny....check it out:
https://open.substack.com/pub/jaxsplace/p/should-the-us-decriminalize-prostitution?r=d4iu&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Hi Julie, Could I suggest you say which country or countries have the least bad policies on this, and some evidence that prostitutes or former prostitutes are now better off because of these least bad policies.
Ian Mordant
Here is the direct link to the debate:
https://watch.civl.com/programs/should-sex-work-in-the-united-states-be-decriminalized-live-from-nyc-2018d7?category_id=171041&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
Anyone who uses terms like "forced sex work" or "juvenile sex work" is evil. My only other comment is I strongly suspect being prostituted is awful and probably damages the prostituted person. I agree with Julie Bindel and I do not think prostitution can be compared to a normal job because normal jobs do not harm the person preforming them.
Some of your points are very well taken, but you’re an extremist. There’s no nuance in your arguments. The opposition is dead wrong. You undermine your credibility by pushing your arguments to the extreme. Some women (usually middle class) do choose to be sex workers. They’d rather be escorts a few times a week than work 12 hour restaurant shifts. They’re not run by pimps. They are a minority but you barely acknowledge them, because their reality undermines your model. You’re obviously a fierce warrior, and full props for that. I’m just saying that a less militant approach in a forum such as this might win more people over to your causes.
Hi Frank, Even on your terms these woman to do prostitution to avoid '12 hour restaurant shifts' to use your words are being heavily pressurized by these work conditions. Your argument is not false, but it is very narrow. Ian Mordant
Fair enough. I appreciate the respectfulness of your comment. Substack is such a breath of fresh air after Twitter/X ;)