Imagine writing a play about JK Rowling entitled TERF CUNT

That's what the prize wazzock Joshua Kaplan did...

Yesterday (23rd of July) I agreed to have a discussion with playwright, Joshua Kaplan, who had written a play based on his “imaginings” of a “family gathering” between JK Rowling and three of the spoilt brats that have starred in the film adaptations of Harry Potter. Below some choice extracts from that conversation, and you can watch the video and the trailer below.

Sometimes, these men are so arrogant that they don’t think that feminists have any defence to their outrageous claims that we are bigots, transphobes, etc, and imagine that their righteousness will carry them through any debate, hence not preparing.

The Spectator video

Joshua Kaplan (JK)

It's a fictional imagining of a conversation between JK Rowling and Daniel Radcliffe, Emma Watson and Rupert Grint, in which they organised like a intervention to discuss the controversy. And interspersed between those scenes are scenes that flashback to JK Rowling's earlier life. So just like the focuses are the introduction, but there are moments that look back there like flashbacks.

First of all, it's a family play, I look at it as a family. So JK Rowling, Daniel, Rupert, and Emma, I just see them in my mind fictional mind, I don't know if it's true. But in my mind, it's a parental figure and three siblings, and having all those fights that we all have with our generational fights with our parents and our children and things like that. So there's that and learning how to talk and seeing how you can have a conversation with people that are of a different mindset than you.

I've never been on social media. I'm not a fan of social media, I think it's a negative, especially Twitter.

There's just enough stuff in Harry Potter to separate out the art versus the artists. You know, whether you agree with JK Rowling or not, can you enjoy Harry Potter? Can you still be part of that world?

Spectator (S)

Julie, what was your having read sort of the synopsis of what the play is going to be about? And, Josh, you might not be on Twitter, but there has been quite a lot of talk on Twitter about the play itself. What is your first impressions of what this play could be like?

Julie Bindel (JB)

I still have no idea having heard Josh describe what it's supposedly about. I also haven't looked for anything about it on Twitter. Obviously, it's called TERF and it was going to be called TERF CUNT. The word TERF is often thrown at women like me and JK Rowling, and the rest of the feminist movement as a way to still look progressive. If you're a man who says that you're on the liberal left of any kind of position, that be able to hate and throw scorn on women and disparage us for fighting for our rights,

This is about women's rights. This is not about keeping ttrans women, however you wish to describe men that identify as women, out of women's spaces, which is where the controversy comes about. It's about keeping men out of women's spaces. So it's about women's rights. And it's about feminists like me, and Rowling, and the countless other active feminists around the world, who campaign to end male violence against women, and to reduce the likelihood of it happening. I see the play as a slur against feminists, as a very provocative, “come and see this bashing of these women, these horrendous witches” which plays out on a stage.

JK

I think there are assumptions being made that that if you think about that, and then you think about the way that I titled my play, I think you will start to think again, about the reason for the title. I think what Julie is saying, I understand. But Julie, you have not seen the play, you have not read the play. You don't know anything about the play. The only thing that you're basing this on is a tweets. And maybe I…

JB

I haven't seen any tweets, Josh.

What I do know is that [the play] leads me to the conclusion that it's probably quite irresponsible to not recognise how much violence threats and intimidation there's been from trans rights activists, most of whom aren't actually trans people, but from the usual social justice warriors - very violent men in black balaclavas and the like, who call themselves Antifa, and who have actually physically attacked women, punched women. I myself have been attacked by such a man. They have threatened to rape and kill women. And these threats have been taken seriously. There have been several criminal charges and convictions of these men, and men that have actually raped and sexually assaulted women claiming that they are the victims of these women's bigotry, bigotry and prejudice. So, I think using the term TERF in today's climate, where it is being used as one of the most incendiary terms against feminists, is terrible.

We haven't just all of a sudden taken some magic pill to make us Nazis and bigots and start hating marginalised people. I think that the play clearly is trying to give an impression that this word is playful and that there's another word that perhaps is equal to that which left wing feminists call trans people. I don't think that you can find one.

S

Josh, I wanted to ask you about JK Rowling and her role in this. You talked I think, I read somewhere that the play draws on her views on gender identity and looks back at some confrontations with key male figures over her life, her first book editor, her abusive ex-husband and her father, did you get in contact with JK Rowling? Before writing the play?

JK

No. It's all fictionalised. It's all based on interviews that I've read and seen with her mostly with her. But no, I have reached out to her since writing the play. But I didn't think that that anybody would actually contact me or be in touch with me.

S

And have you have you reached out to any other so called TERFS, in order to write the play.

No, after writing the play we did, I did reach out to two different people on both sides. And I didn't hear back from anybody.

JB

What a surprise. The other thing is just that I wanted to just say is that Rowling, who I know, is part of a wider Women's Liberation Movement. We don't do individual ego trips, we are part of a movement, we're feminists, many of us have had sexual violence, male sexual violence, which is why we don't want other women and girls to experience it. But one thing to say about Rowling is all of this kind of fictionalised idea of conversational dialogue between Radcliffe and Watson and the like, she's not anybody's mummy, she is an author, she should be given the same respect as male authors.

And I think that the idea that somehow you've written a play, which is exploring this whole issue, so you said trans rights, and then you said women's rights, and the supposed conflict, I think they were the words that you used, or this apparent conflict, and yet to not contact those of us that have been fighting for decades as feminists to uphold… - in fact, some of us built those women only spaces that have now been invaded by and put at risk by trans activists, rape crisis centres, women's refuges, women's prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms, those of us that have fought to maintain those, I would have thought that maybe if you were looking at a dialogue within this fictionalised piece, that you might have actually made an attempt to look at what we are saying and why but clearly not.

S

Josh do you want to respond to that.

Not really. I think that Julie's just using this as a podium, as a you know, this is this is just pretty typical...

Short clip

JB

So you wrote the play with having spoken to who just in your head, just your idea about what trans rights are these horrible women who just wants to take away the rights of marginalised groups?

Did you speak to any of the women that have been fighting against gender ideology and the invasion of men in women's spaces? You just decided to write a play that you called TERF, and you focused on a woman who has had death and rape threats. Incidentally, many of us have had them. As I say, this isn't about one woman who has decided to take on this fight on her own as the superhero. That's what men tend to do. This is a woman who is part of a feminist movement, who herself has spoken out about being sexually assaulted and experienced domestic abuse. But you throw in some fictionalised version of her ex husband, who was violent, you don't talk to any feminists, and you put this play on and you expect that we're supposed to just tell you in good faith. I mean, come on.

Why wouldn't you do your research by speaking with those of us that all of a sudden, according to trans rights activists have turned into bigots and Nazis and fascists? Were left wing feminists were human rights defenders. Why do you think we're talking about the danger to women’s single sex spaces? Do you think is because we're bigots?

S

Julie, could you just tell us a bit about the essay '[written by JK Rowling] itself?

JB

It's very similar to the essays or the articles, or the op eds, or the books that many of us have written, which is about why single sex spaces for women and girls are so important about sexual violence and domestic abuse, and about how she would stand with any marginalised group. We've all said that and we all mean it. And I'm talking about feminists who are leftists. I'm not talking about right wing zealots that rally for Trump and talk about removing the rights of lesbians and gay people, abortion rights along with those of so-called trans rights. I'm talking about those of us that have got a long history in this movement. And Rowling has long been a feminist and she remains a feminist. So I think, to write something like that in which she disclosed her sexual and domestic abuse to then immediately receive death and rape threats from those that say that they are on the right side of history, and those that say that they are just doing what's right in protecting a marginalised group, says everything we need to know. These are misogynistic men who use the cloak of trans rights in order to scream TERF, and CUNT. And trans rights activists are men's rights activists, and what actually should be happening is a proper dialogue between those feminists and those reasonable trans people who understand this isn't a clash of rights. This is about the complete takeover of women's rights and the elimination of our rights.

This is what Rowling's piece was about, it's what she has repeatedly tried to say. We understand this is a misogynistic men's rights movement. This is because we're not stupid. We've been doing this for a long time.

S

Josh, lastly, you're obviously American, you're from New York. And I think, based on some of the conversations we've had about the original title of the play, and the use of the word TERF, when you were writing this, did you have any idea about the weight that the wording carries in Britain? Or were you a little bit surprised about perhaps, in some ways, about the public's reaction?

JK

Yes. And no, I'm not. I'm not British. And I spend a lot of time here, but I don't, you know, that's not my it's not my culture. And so I knew it was like a derogatory sense to it. But I also, I don't associate with that in the same way. So yes, I was surprised. I just I don't, I don't feel it. Like, as deeply as I think I would if I were British.

JB

I think Josh isn't feeling it about the word, not because he's an American, but because he's a man. And this is a movement against women against feminists and it's a misogynistic movement and TERF is a misogynistic slur.

S

Thank you, Julie. Thank you, Josh. Thanks for joining