Shocking and uncomfortable to read. At the begging of the article I felt you were being too judgey of the women. I feel sorry for them. They were all saying they weren’t worth much, weren’t beautiful, were fat and old.
I don’t think white old fat men feel like that.
It’s complicated.
It also makes me not want to visit Jamaica because I wouldn’t want to be hassled. It’s sounds awful.
What should the women do instead do you think? Set up projects for young unemployed Jamaican men?
And why is cunnilingus taboo for Jamaican men? That’s another example of abusive attitudes towards women.
Interesting that you say you feel sorry for them as they had the view that they weren't beautiful or were of little worth and were over weight, yet why were they having sex with Jamaican men? because they ( the men) were gorgeous and fit and in one quote a women stated they wasn't any fat on them, so they can't complain about being undervalued if they are using the same values as men in their own countries!!?
I think you are missing the point that we are all conditioned by society to value beauty, but the importance of it in terms of worth and the pressure to hold back time is greater on women.
Of course they use the same ideals, because it is what we have been conditioned to. Two sides of the same coin.
However, for women, their beauty is usually portrayed as their ONLY worth and something that is suggested as lasting for a much shorter time than men. Their view of beauty and their own lack of self- worth comes from the fact that in society they are portrayed as having no value to men if they are not beautiful.
For men beauty is merely one aspect of their value in society, and female beauty is often about upping the men's status with other men. A power play.
For most women, this validation is not really about the men's looks in itself, it is about her own value to still attract.
As the article described for many of the women they think they are truly desired due to the way it is carried out.
It is social conditioning and power dynamics from one culture and society taken abroad, where there are different dynamics.
Just because what someone is doing is or feels wrong, doesn't mean you also can't feel sorry for them when you realise that their own oppression is at play.
No one missed the point. It's the same misandrist , hypocritical bullshit that Feminists typically wallow in. You berate men for sex tourism but you bend over backwards to try to find some reason to justify it when it's the women who are the exploiters.
It goes both ways. The same behaviour you then exhibit by ignoring all of my points as a woman who can explain aspects of our world view you wouldn't appreciate or understand as you haven't been raised in a society that makes you feel continually devalued and worthless beyond your body and looks, merely rejecting them because they don't support your own world view. Once again, a man who invalidates a woman's experiences, doesn't listen and makes us feel like our voices and experiences don't count. Same hypocritical BS where men say women should listen to men's reasons and experiences but don't do the same. Just moving the goal posts, just as plenty of men exhibit grooming and abusive behaviours which aren't called out by other men either :)
"once again...when a man invalidates a woman's experiences" <--- You stupid White b*tch.....this ISN'T ABOUT YOU. Holy Christ.....do you "hear" yourself? You literally just tried to make the exploitation of impoverished Black/Brown Men from former White Colonial Settler Projects about the experiences of White Women...so therefore we should give them a pass for the horrible shit they do to impoverished Black/Brown Men/Boys....and if you don't see the absolute hypocrisy, racism, and abject STUPIDITY of your argument then I can't help you.
No...it actually doesn't go "both ways", and no one ignored your points as opposed to calling your "points" out for the self serving bullshit that White Feminists often engage in for what they are. It's nothing short of the same Anti-Black-Racism(that more often than not targets Black Males of all ages) and out right misandry that has always been at the core of Feminism.
Your entire bullshit argument reduces down to "Well...the exploitation and racism that these White Women engage in isn't as bad as White Men doing the exact same thing because White Women age like milk and thus that gives them a pass for the heinous shit they do instead of being held to account like the grown ass women that they are"...are you fucking serious ?
I am not sure if you realize you are completely full of shit and are resorting to gaslighting in order to avoid accepting the fact that White Women can and have infact been oppressors for the last 600 years, or if you are just fucking stupid.
You are such a moron! White women oppressors. Let's see, you have had how many white women turn down sex with you? Hurty feelings, creep? LOL. Trying to make your incel failures into woke politics. You are a nasty mouthed misogynist trying to cover it up with accusations of racism. What a putz.
It's absurd to claim these women are exploiting anyone. These men aggressively pursue the women, lie to them about having real feeling, get angry when the woman runs out of money, (because these are greedy, grifting dishonest, cabana boys) and when push comes to shove, it is the woman getting pushed and shoved. You hate women because women don't want you.
"White Women are capable and intelligent human beings with a moral compass....unless an impoverished underage Black Male CHILD who is young enough to be their son/grandson offers them sex for money? Then it's the impoverished, underage, Black Male CHILD who is the predator here....not the vile, disgusting, middle age White Women who traveled to these impoverished places to have sex with impoverished underaged Black MALE CHILDREN in the first place" <--- fixed that for you, stupid, racist, White Bitch.
Do you hold the same standards for disgusting, repulsive, White Men who engage in these same predatory practices ?
If not, then you are just another, stupid, racist White Bitch who doesn't have the integrity to hold yourself to the same standards you hold others to.
Are you serious? These women dehumanize and exploit poor black men but you feel sorry for them? And somehow, a male prostitute who refuses to go down on the exploiting "Jane" is the one being abusive? I guess you just feel entitled to the bodies of men. Like women in the article, just order me up a young, well hung black man for me to screw! How sick!
I hope you are also this against the way men objectify and exploit women in an everyday basis also? Of course dehumanising language and exploitation is wrong. The same way it is wrong that women still experience it on a daily basis.
The point about oral is due to the fact that women's pleasure has been seen as irrelevant through time, and sexual acts focus on only men's pleasure. Many men feel entitled to oral themselves. These things are of course linked to this sexist and misogynistic culture.
You can think something is wrong and also see the ways in which people have been shaped to their own behaviour or also see that they are simultaneously a victim and perpetrator throughout a situation, and feel sorry for aspects.
If the men aren't explicitly asking for money in exchange for sex as a transaction in the way prostitutes in Europe would, then it can morph into a manipulation of the women.
Some of these women may and do seem to be ignorant to the real poverty and what is actually going on, thinking they are mutually having fun or finding love. Just like many men can be scammed and plenty of people would feel sorry for them too.
I am. When the passport bros get got in some foreign land trying to get laid for half the price I eat them up also. If a female prostitute chooses not to give oral sex to her john do you think she is sexually abusing the man? HOW can they be ignorant of the real poverty when they only have to look around them? I have said it a million times and will say it a million more. White women have no desire to tear down the power structures but only replace the white male as it's head.
Feminism from it's beginning has been primarily a political project of upper middle class to wealthy White Women to take control of the Partriarchy...not to dismantle it.... that has wallowed in Anti-Black-Racism from the start.
The creepy men coming on here screaming through the interwebs don't give a crap about what happens to female prostitutes. They are just mad some middle-aged white women are exercising sexual agency. They are angry that it seems the women are somewhat (illusory) in control. They are MRA INCELS masquerading as social justice warriors. Notice their liberal use of invectives towards women even daring to give their opinions in the comments. It enrages them. Good. I hope their dicks fall off.
Again...you can't actually refute the point being made....you keep side-stepping addressing the demonstrable predatory actions of these White Women via babbling about it's okay because Men do it to like a fucking toddler(yet you are too stupid to process that you contradict your own argument via pointing out that the Men are FUCKING PREDATORS when they do this shit).
...but then I have come to expect this fuck-brained reasoning from White Feminists, and like most PoC, have learned to never trust a fucking word that comes out of a White Feminist's mouth.....you stupid , racist, White Bitch.
It is incredible how sexist you are. Men have feelings just as women do. And emotional needs. It is only your bigotry enabling you to pretend the exact same behavior, with exact same intentions, is worse when men do it. You are toxic to men, and maybe this is what keeps you from having better relationships with men.
Shit like the comments being made in defense of this predatory as fuck behavior is exactly why PoC do not trust White Feminists. It was NEVER about tearing down this entirely fucked up racist, oligarchical system as opposed to simply usurping it from the few elite White Men who control it.
Have you missed the bit when women fell in love with those guys and moved to Jamaica to live with them and ended up being beaten and exploited by said men?
I'm not sure, but what I do know growing up around West Indians is that the general consensus for them is that it is a no-no. However you will find the sentiment regarding oral sex within their diaspora varies. My best friend is Jamaican and he LOVES giving women head, and every West Indian Woman I have slept with felt the same way....but then they were all 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants in the New York metropolitan area. They tend to be much more conservative back on the island.
Who are you to force others to perform oral sex? It is one of the biggest driver or oral cancer in men. Men have the right to refuse if they so choose.
I am tired of entitled feminists who are so fast to point out all the things women can or should refuse, but have the temerity to think they have the right to shame men for not wanting to be exploited.
I’ve never been to Jamaica and I haven’t had sex for a long time either. To be frank I’m totally uninterested in getting younger poorer men to date me let alone gave sex with me.
Thanks for sharing again Julie. This is interesting and deeply uncomfortable to read. The different angles of the power balance really make it a complex issue to form a view on - ultimately none of these are healthy relationships but as the domestic violence example demonstrates the abuser dynamic is less straightforward than in female prostitution.
I am genuinely fascinated by people’s ability to delude themselves someone is a willing participant. And some of the dehumanising language quoted in the article is really shocking.
It's not that complicated. These are wealthy, white women from western nations exploited poor black men for sex and self-affirmation. It's dehumanizing, racist, sexist and classicist.
This. It is exactly the same as if your reverse the sexes. It is only bigotry feminists regulary exhibit that enables them to try to justify it in case of women.
hmmml gotta love the dissection of power play, its hard to work out what makes a sexual relationship work, I am a probably oversexed 63 year old man who fortunately appears to be aging well, with a open marriage to my wife 50 who I have been with for 27 years and am lucky to have an open marriage with that actually works with a 30'year old girlfriend who looks 20 and is someone who has never said no to any suggestions I make and who them amplifies them 100 percent till I come in a screaming, I have one major saying and that having a good time takes a lot of work, toys, partners, the occasional drugs, the occasionally family member a couple of times removed ( we all have kinks ) that's only a minor one, where was i got side tracked oh yeah never put up with crap sex.
You're a Bell-end Gordon. And if you keep shagging "the occasional family member a couple of times removed" you'll eventually produce a super race of Bell-ends for the planet.
It’s depressing to me that so many women have given up on the emotional intimacy that a sexual relationship with a psychologically invested person offers. I just can’t get off on the idea of physical sex for sex sake, and can’t imagine spending one second nor one cent of my holiday banging a young man for kicks. Seems to represent yet another journey along the road to perdition. I’d much rather support the people by buying a piece of art work or craft that has been fashioned locally, and not interfere with the sex lives of the locals and their families, so I wouldn’t be joining those ladies’ holiday dreams.
Wow. What a unpleasant trip down a rarely examined (at least by me) rabbit hole. This is an incredible piece of writing that does the rare work of exposing human behavior without judging it. I don't know what to think now that I'm done reading it. Thank you.
There is no great difference between female and male sex tourism. The fact of the matter is that they want exactly the same, sexual and romantic relationships with people who would never give them a time of day at home.
It's interesting to see the women use the narrative that they are "helping out"., like they are doing the men a favour and not exploiting their cicumstances.
If you read about what older western men do in Thailand, this is an exact reflection. No better and no worse. In Thailand it is also common for the younger Thai women in relationships with the older men to physically, verbally, and emotionally abuse the men, then leave them as soon as they run out of money. These are complicated situations where there is exploitation and abuse on both sides. It's very sad.
The women described above remind me of women on the reality show ‘90 Day Fiancé’. There’s nothing at all wrong with their appearance or age but these women describe their looks as barriers to meeting men in the US. Just like the men who do sex tourism, the women also want very young, fit “foreign” lovers instead of genuinely interested partners who want to have sex with them (for free).. As Julie says, it’s not the same as men but it’s not harmless either.
Also, the men have little chance to be physically overpowered, raped and not paid at the end, even when they opt into it. This happens a lot to female prostitutes. As the article mentions, if mistreatment happens, it is still from the male to the female. The damage to the men is to their pride, and it is also a social poison, plus AIDS etc. But let's not kid ourselves that they are at similar levels of physical risk
These women are no better than the men who do the same thing. Traveling to foreign lands to sexually take advantage of poor people is ugly. Ugly as their souls.
You gotta appreciate the contortions White Feminists such as yourself twist themselves into to justify the indefensible when the victims are Black Boys and Men.
Are you retarded? AIDS kills! So can some other STDs. Not to mention psychological abuse, which is proven to be sometimes more detrimental than physical abuse, and certainly no par with physical. And as women in the west are responsible for about half of domestic abuse, I am pretty sure they are more than capable of inflicting harm.
AIDS is not prevelant in Western Countries but it is in poor countries like Jamaica. And those guys are reluctant to use condom. So they are guilty of spreading HIV as much as women whom agreed to unprotected sex.
No, most female prostitutes do not have Pimp and even if they did they “chose” to be prostitutes for the same reasons these men did…but of course it’s somehow different when the victims of exploitation are Black….especially when they are Black Men…then it’s no longer exploitation. You racist moron.
Untrue. Most women need money and use sex industry to get it, just like these men. You dont see wealthy young ladies turning to sex work do you? If all it took was a pimp them women from all classes would turn to it.
Yet another, stupid, racist dipshit trying to justify the unjustifiable.
So just to be clear
1. Predatory exploitation is ok only when the exploited are impoverished Black Men/Boys ?
2. It's ok that middle aged White Women are targeting Underage/Minor Black MALE CHILDREN because these CHILDREN were "asking for it" ? If so, then is it safe to assume that White Children are also "asking for it" in similar situations ?
Bullshit. I have personally met some of the women. I did not want to get involved with any of them, but I know someone who did. They certainly did not have anyone forcing them into anything. They were just trying to get some money to keep their life together. Maybe have some fun along the way. I also met a guy in a "relationship" with a pretty ugly American woman. She was very clear he is just a fling as long as she is there. So, from my perspective it looked exactly the same.
That’s bullshit. It very is much fundamentally the same as when men engage in sexual tourism. The only difference worth noting here is that Men don’t attempt to justify what they are doing with bullshit, self-serving platitudes about “serving the community via exploiting the bodies and circumstances of these young, impoverished men”.
Feminists wonder why there has been such a visceral backlash against Feminism these past few years and this self-serving, racist bullshit is exactly why.
Belated response to rediscovering this article which I remember from back in 2003 in fact think I might even have a ripped out copy from the Guardian Weekend was it? Stashed in file somewhere. I was deeply affected by the issues - not sure whether to despise or feel sorry for these women - bit of both! - caught between my conscientious anti-racism, and feminism, and own sense of being a single ageing white woman often travelling in similar places - so I was often exposed to this kind of 'temptation' - at the time.
I saw a play . .Sugar Mummies, Tanika Gupta, have copy here! - based on it, there was also a similar film starring Charlotte Rampling . . And wrote my own story or two on the theme . .
From perspective of what is happening now, these women play too-neatly into the entitled 'Karen' trope, from the pov of (younger, male) social justice warrior types. Yet they have their own tragic agenda, which I and author Julie B were uncomfortably reaching for at the time. The article was fascinating to me both for personal and the political tensions, which are even more exposed nowadays.
Interesting read. But without all due respect, speak for yourself. I was born in Barbados, was able to move to the UK in my late teens. I’m 30 now.
My question is, why are white women always so anxious about stuff like this? These men are hardly exploited, at least from where I come from. The world wants white women. Black men want white women. Just let it be. Bedding a white woman is the best sexual encounter most of the men of the non-white world dream of. Why scrutinize it?
Absolutely disgusting and despicable of theses descendants of colonizers witches and warlocks. This is why they never want black people to have a greater or equal footing. They deny reparations or stay silent because these witches have other plans to exploit black bodies again all for money and gain. Yet the world claims these females are virginal and innocent but the caucasian woman also was a slave owner she was not innocent nor fighting against colonialism. Actually, the opposite is true because she's selfish and competitive with black women, always wanting everything to be about her. All consuming voracious. narcissitic, pretentious nasty filthy ways. She wants to hurt black women by making herself the better choice when her beauty fades like bananas age so she uses her nordic lies.
Absolutely disgusting and despicable of theses descendants of colonizers witches and warlocks. This is why they never want black people to have a greater or equal footing. They deny reparations or stay silent because these witches have other plans to exploit black bodies again all for money and gain. Yet the world claims these females are virginal and innocent but the caucasian woman also was a slave owner she was not innocent nor fighting against colonialism. Actually, the opposite is true because she's selfish and competitive with black women, always wanting everything to be about her. All consuming voracious. narcissitic, pretentious nasty filthy ways. She wants to hurt black women by making herself the better choice when her beauty fades like bananas age so she uses her nordic lies.
Shocking and uncomfortable to read. At the begging of the article I felt you were being too judgey of the women. I feel sorry for them. They were all saying they weren’t worth much, weren’t beautiful, were fat and old.
I don’t think white old fat men feel like that.
It’s complicated.
It also makes me not want to visit Jamaica because I wouldn’t want to be hassled. It’s sounds awful.
What should the women do instead do you think? Set up projects for young unemployed Jamaican men?
And why is cunnilingus taboo for Jamaican men? That’s another example of abusive attitudes towards women.
Very interesting report though julie.
Interesting that you say you feel sorry for them as they had the view that they weren't beautiful or were of little worth and were over weight, yet why were they having sex with Jamaican men? because they ( the men) were gorgeous and fit and in one quote a women stated they wasn't any fat on them, so they can't complain about being undervalued if they are using the same values as men in their own countries!!?
I think you are missing the point that we are all conditioned by society to value beauty, but the importance of it in terms of worth and the pressure to hold back time is greater on women.
Of course they use the same ideals, because it is what we have been conditioned to. Two sides of the same coin.
However, for women, their beauty is usually portrayed as their ONLY worth and something that is suggested as lasting for a much shorter time than men. Their view of beauty and their own lack of self- worth comes from the fact that in society they are portrayed as having no value to men if they are not beautiful.
For men beauty is merely one aspect of their value in society, and female beauty is often about upping the men's status with other men. A power play.
For most women, this validation is not really about the men's looks in itself, it is about her own value to still attract.
As the article described for many of the women they think they are truly desired due to the way it is carried out.
It is social conditioning and power dynamics from one culture and society taken abroad, where there are different dynamics.
Just because what someone is doing is or feels wrong, doesn't mean you also can't feel sorry for them when you realise that their own oppression is at play.
No one missed the point. It's the same misandrist , hypocritical bullshit that Feminists typically wallow in. You berate men for sex tourism but you bend over backwards to try to find some reason to justify it when it's the women who are the exploiters.
It goes both ways. The same behaviour you then exhibit by ignoring all of my points as a woman who can explain aspects of our world view you wouldn't appreciate or understand as you haven't been raised in a society that makes you feel continually devalued and worthless beyond your body and looks, merely rejecting them because they don't support your own world view. Once again, a man who invalidates a woman's experiences, doesn't listen and makes us feel like our voices and experiences don't count. Same hypocritical BS where men say women should listen to men's reasons and experiences but don't do the same. Just moving the goal posts, just as plenty of men exhibit grooming and abusive behaviours which aren't called out by other men either :)
"once again...when a man invalidates a woman's experiences" <--- You stupid White b*tch.....this ISN'T ABOUT YOU. Holy Christ.....do you "hear" yourself? You literally just tried to make the exploitation of impoverished Black/Brown Men from former White Colonial Settler Projects about the experiences of White Women...so therefore we should give them a pass for the horrible shit they do to impoverished Black/Brown Men/Boys....and if you don't see the absolute hypocrisy, racism, and abject STUPIDITY of your argument then I can't help you.
What a piece of garbage you are. You are just a bullying, woman-hating creep who can't get any women so you berate them online. Go f yourself.
No...it actually doesn't go "both ways", and no one ignored your points as opposed to calling your "points" out for the self serving bullshit that White Feminists often engage in for what they are. It's nothing short of the same Anti-Black-Racism(that more often than not targets Black Males of all ages) and out right misandry that has always been at the core of Feminism.
Your entire bullshit argument reduces down to "Well...the exploitation and racism that these White Women engage in isn't as bad as White Men doing the exact same thing because White Women age like milk and thus that gives them a pass for the heinous shit they do instead of being held to account like the grown ass women that they are"...are you fucking serious ?
I am not sure if you realize you are completely full of shit and are resorting to gaslighting in order to avoid accepting the fact that White Women can and have infact been oppressors for the last 600 years, or if you are just fucking stupid.
You are such a moron! White women oppressors. Let's see, you have had how many white women turn down sex with you? Hurty feelings, creep? LOL. Trying to make your incel failures into woke politics. You are a nasty mouthed misogynist trying to cover it up with accusations of racism. What a putz.
Or, men exhibit grooming and abusive behaviors that are framed as the man being exploited.
It does go both ways. They are both exploiting each other.
It's absurd to claim these women are exploiting anyone. These men aggressively pursue the women, lie to them about having real feeling, get angry when the woman runs out of money, (because these are greedy, grifting dishonest, cabana boys) and when push comes to shove, it is the woman getting pushed and shoved. You hate women because women don't want you.
Delusional.
"White Women are capable and intelligent human beings with a moral compass....unless an impoverished underage Black Male CHILD who is young enough to be their son/grandson offers them sex for money? Then it's the impoverished, underage, Black Male CHILD who is the predator here....not the vile, disgusting, middle age White Women who traveled to these impoverished places to have sex with impoverished underaged Black MALE CHILDREN in the first place" <--- fixed that for you, stupid, racist, White Bitch.
Do you hold the same standards for disgusting, repulsive, White Men who engage in these same predatory practices ?
If not, then you are just another, stupid, racist White Bitch who doesn't have the integrity to hold yourself to the same standards you hold others to.
Guys who say 'misandrist'🙄
"It's okay to be a predatory, racist pederast just as long as you are a White Woman....." <--- fixed that for you, White Bitch.
LOL! No, a lot of white women turned you down. You just didn't have what it takes.
I agree. They are hypocrites.
Are you serious? These women dehumanize and exploit poor black men but you feel sorry for them? And somehow, a male prostitute who refuses to go down on the exploiting "Jane" is the one being abusive? I guess you just feel entitled to the bodies of men. Like women in the article, just order me up a young, well hung black man for me to screw! How sick!
I hope you are also this against the way men objectify and exploit women in an everyday basis also? Of course dehumanising language and exploitation is wrong. The same way it is wrong that women still experience it on a daily basis.
The point about oral is due to the fact that women's pleasure has been seen as irrelevant through time, and sexual acts focus on only men's pleasure. Many men feel entitled to oral themselves. These things are of course linked to this sexist and misogynistic culture.
You can think something is wrong and also see the ways in which people have been shaped to their own behaviour or also see that they are simultaneously a victim and perpetrator throughout a situation, and feel sorry for aspects.
If the men aren't explicitly asking for money in exchange for sex as a transaction in the way prostitutes in Europe would, then it can morph into a manipulation of the women.
Some of these women may and do seem to be ignorant to the real poverty and what is actually going on, thinking they are mutually having fun or finding love. Just like many men can be scammed and plenty of people would feel sorry for them too.
I am. When the passport bros get got in some foreign land trying to get laid for half the price I eat them up also. If a female prostitute chooses not to give oral sex to her john do you think she is sexually abusing the man? HOW can they be ignorant of the real poverty when they only have to look around them? I have said it a million times and will say it a million more. White women have no desire to tear down the power structures but only replace the white male as it's head.
THANK YOU.
Feminism from it's beginning has been primarily a political project of upper middle class to wealthy White Women to take control of the Partriarchy...not to dismantle it.... that has wallowed in Anti-Black-Racism from the start.
The creepy men coming on here screaming through the interwebs don't give a crap about what happens to female prostitutes. They are just mad some middle-aged white women are exercising sexual agency. They are angry that it seems the women are somewhat (illusory) in control. They are MRA INCELS masquerading as social justice warriors. Notice their liberal use of invectives towards women even daring to give their opinions in the comments. It enrages them. Good. I hope their dicks fall off.
Again...you can't actually refute the point being made....you keep side-stepping addressing the demonstrable predatory actions of these White Women via babbling about it's okay because Men do it to like a fucking toddler(yet you are too stupid to process that you contradict your own argument via pointing out that the Men are FUCKING PREDATORS when they do this shit).
...but then I have come to expect this fuck-brained reasoning from White Feminists, and like most PoC, have learned to never trust a fucking word that comes out of a White Feminist's mouth.....you stupid , racist, White Bitch.
Wow....how angry, agressive and racist you are. Unbelievable.
It is incredible how sexist you are. Men have feelings just as women do. And emotional needs. It is only your bigotry enabling you to pretend the exact same behavior, with exact same intentions, is worse when men do it. You are toxic to men, and maybe this is what keeps you from having better relationships with men.
Shit like the comments being made in defense of this predatory as fuck behavior is exactly why PoC do not trust White Feminists. It was NEVER about tearing down this entirely fucked up racist, oligarchical system as opposed to simply usurping it from the few elite White Men who control it.
Have you missed the bit when women fell in love with those guys and moved to Jamaica to live with them and ended up being beaten and exploited by said men?
Oral sex is taboo for both genders in Jamaica you misandrist imbecile.
Why is it taboo?
I'm not sure, but what I do know growing up around West Indians is that the general consensus for them is that it is a no-no. However you will find the sentiment regarding oral sex within their diaspora varies. My best friend is Jamaican and he LOVES giving women head, and every West Indian Woman I have slept with felt the same way....but then they were all 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants in the New York metropolitan area. They tend to be much more conservative back on the island.
Who are you to force others to perform oral sex? It is one of the biggest driver or oral cancer in men. Men have the right to refuse if they so choose.
I am tired of entitled feminists who are so fast to point out all the things women can or should refuse, but have the temerity to think they have the right to shame men for not wanting to be exploited.
I’ve never been to Jamaica and I haven’t had sex for a long time either. To be frank I’m totally uninterested in getting younger poorer men to date me let alone gave sex with me.
"And why is cunnilingus taboo for Jamaican men? That’s another example of abusive attitudes towards women."
You are clearly thinking that women have a right to expect for men to lick their genitals to their benefit.
Such attitude is wrong regardless of which women and men we are talking about.
She was just asking question you imbecile.
You seem to get off on being disgusting.
The fact is that most sexual exploitation is by men against women. This is a rare example of it happening the other way around.
Thanks for sharing again Julie. This is interesting and deeply uncomfortable to read. The different angles of the power balance really make it a complex issue to form a view on - ultimately none of these are healthy relationships but as the domestic violence example demonstrates the abuser dynamic is less straightforward than in female prostitution.
I am genuinely fascinated by people’s ability to delude themselves someone is a willing participant. And some of the dehumanising language quoted in the article is really shocking.
It's not that complicated. These are wealthy, white women from western nations exploited poor black men for sex and self-affirmation. It's dehumanizing, racist, sexist and classicist.
its is also a exchange of cock for dollars which appear on the surface to be working. just not well
This. It is exactly the same as if your reverse the sexes. It is only bigotry feminists regulary exhibit that enables them to try to justify it in case of women.
Yes, let us forget all the male victims of their foreign female lovers, wifes,..., who poisoned them to reap financial benefits.
hmmml gotta love the dissection of power play, its hard to work out what makes a sexual relationship work, I am a probably oversexed 63 year old man who fortunately appears to be aging well, with a open marriage to my wife 50 who I have been with for 27 years and am lucky to have an open marriage with that actually works with a 30'year old girlfriend who looks 20 and is someone who has never said no to any suggestions I make and who them amplifies them 100 percent till I come in a screaming, I have one major saying and that having a good time takes a lot of work, toys, partners, the occasional drugs, the occasionally family member a couple of times removed ( we all have kinks ) that's only a minor one, where was i got side tracked oh yeah never put up with crap sex.
You're a Bell-end Gordon. And if you keep shagging "the occasional family member a couple of times removed" you'll eventually produce a super race of Bell-ends for the planet.
It’s depressing to me that so many women have given up on the emotional intimacy that a sexual relationship with a psychologically invested person offers. I just can’t get off on the idea of physical sex for sex sake, and can’t imagine spending one second nor one cent of my holiday banging a young man for kicks. Seems to represent yet another journey along the road to perdition. I’d much rather support the people by buying a piece of art work or craft that has been fashioned locally, and not interfere with the sex lives of the locals and their families, so I wouldn’t be joining those ladies’ holiday dreams.
Wow. What a unpleasant trip down a rarely examined (at least by me) rabbit hole. This is an incredible piece of writing that does the rare work of exposing human behavior without judging it. I don't know what to think now that I'm done reading it. Thank you.
There is no great difference between female and male sex tourism. The fact of the matter is that they want exactly the same, sexual and romantic relationships with people who would never give them a time of day at home.
It's interesting to see the women use the narrative that they are "helping out"., like they are doing the men a favour and not exploiting their cicumstances.
There is no patriarchy. There is only plutocracy. And yes, women want a bigger piece of the action.
If you read about what older western men do in Thailand, this is an exact reflection. No better and no worse. In Thailand it is also common for the younger Thai women in relationships with the older men to physically, verbally, and emotionally abuse the men, then leave them as soon as they run out of money. These are complicated situations where there is exploitation and abuse on both sides. It's very sad.
The women described above remind me of women on the reality show ‘90 Day Fiancé’. There’s nothing at all wrong with their appearance or age but these women describe their looks as barriers to meeting men in the US. Just like the men who do sex tourism, the women also want very young, fit “foreign” lovers instead of genuinely interested partners who want to have sex with them (for free).. As Julie says, it’s not the same as men but it’s not harmless either.
It's absolutely the same as men! The difference is that these exploited black men have absolutely no protection.
Most females have a pimp who force them into prostitution. Theses guys made a choice too sell their body.
Also, the men have little chance to be physically overpowered, raped and not paid at the end, even when they opt into it. This happens a lot to female prostitutes. As the article mentions, if mistreatment happens, it is still from the male to the female. The damage to the men is to their pride, and it is also a social poison, plus AIDS etc. But let's not kid ourselves that they are at similar levels of physical risk
These women are no better than the men who do the same thing. Traveling to foreign lands to sexually take advantage of poor people is ugly. Ugly as their souls.
You gotta appreciate the contortions White Feminists such as yourself twist themselves into to justify the indefensible when the victims are Black Boys and Men.
Are you retarded? AIDS kills! So can some other STDs. Not to mention psychological abuse, which is proven to be sometimes more detrimental than physical abuse, and certainly no par with physical. And as women in the west are responsible for about half of domestic abuse, I am pretty sure they are more than capable of inflicting harm.
AIDS is not prevelant in Western Countries but it is in poor countries like Jamaica. And those guys are reluctant to use condom. So they are guilty of spreading HIV as much as women whom agreed to unprotected sex.
No, most female prostitutes do not have Pimp and even if they did they “chose” to be prostitutes for the same reasons these men did…but of course it’s somehow different when the victims of exploitation are Black….especially when they are Black Men…then it’s no longer exploitation. You racist moron.
It is not about blacks, it is them being men. They are radical misandrists. With penchant for racism.
Untrue. Most women need money and use sex industry to get it, just like these men. You dont see wealthy young ladies turning to sex work do you? If all it took was a pimp them women from all classes would turn to it.
Yet another, stupid, racist dipshit trying to justify the unjustifiable.
So just to be clear
1. Predatory exploitation is ok only when the exploited are impoverished Black Men/Boys ?
2. It's ok that middle aged White Women are targeting Underage/Minor Black MALE CHILDREN because these CHILDREN were "asking for it" ? If so, then is it safe to assume that White Children are also "asking for it" in similar situations ?
Bullshit. I have personally met some of the women. I did not want to get involved with any of them, but I know someone who did. They certainly did not have anyone forcing them into anything. They were just trying to get some money to keep their life together. Maybe have some fun along the way. I also met a guy in a "relationship" with a pretty ugly American woman. She was very clear he is just a fling as long as she is there. So, from my perspective it looked exactly the same.
That’s bullshit. It very is much fundamentally the same as when men engage in sexual tourism. The only difference worth noting here is that Men don’t attempt to justify what they are doing with bullshit, self-serving platitudes about “serving the community via exploiting the bodies and circumstances of these young, impoverished men”.
Feminists wonder why there has been such a visceral backlash against Feminism these past few years and this self-serving, racist bullshit is exactly why.
No. It is exactly the same. The real difference is bigots pretending women are more wholesome, no proof needed.
Belated response to rediscovering this article which I remember from back in 2003 in fact think I might even have a ripped out copy from the Guardian Weekend was it? Stashed in file somewhere. I was deeply affected by the issues - not sure whether to despise or feel sorry for these women - bit of both! - caught between my conscientious anti-racism, and feminism, and own sense of being a single ageing white woman often travelling in similar places - so I was often exposed to this kind of 'temptation' - at the time.
I saw a play . .Sugar Mummies, Tanika Gupta, have copy here! - based on it, there was also a similar film starring Charlotte Rampling . . And wrote my own story or two on the theme . .
From perspective of what is happening now, these women play too-neatly into the entitled 'Karen' trope, from the pov of (younger, male) social justice warrior types. Yet they have their own tragic agenda, which I and author Julie B were uncomfortably reaching for at the time. The article was fascinating to me both for personal and the political tensions, which are even more exposed nowadays.
Interesting read. But without all due respect, speak for yourself. I was born in Barbados, was able to move to the UK in my late teens. I’m 30 now.
My question is, why are white women always so anxious about stuff like this? These men are hardly exploited, at least from where I come from. The world wants white women. Black men want white women. Just let it be. Bedding a white woman is the best sexual encounter most of the men of the non-white world dream of. Why scrutinize it?
Do you feel the same about the women there? Because this is exactly how some would describe themselves.
Some logical contortions here but I get it. Women forever the victims.
Absolutely disgusting and despicable of theses descendants of colonizers witches and warlocks. This is why they never want black people to have a greater or equal footing. They deny reparations or stay silent because these witches have other plans to exploit black bodies again all for money and gain. Yet the world claims these females are virginal and innocent but the caucasian woman also was a slave owner she was not innocent nor fighting against colonialism. Actually, the opposite is true because she's selfish and competitive with black women, always wanting everything to be about her. All consuming voracious. narcissitic, pretentious nasty filthy ways. She wants to hurt black women by making herself the better choice when her beauty fades like bananas age so she uses her nordic lies.
Absolutely disgusting and despicable of theses descendants of colonizers witches and warlocks. This is why they never want black people to have a greater or equal footing. They deny reparations or stay silent because these witches have other plans to exploit black bodies again all for money and gain. Yet the world claims these females are virginal and innocent but the caucasian woman also was a slave owner she was not innocent nor fighting against colonialism. Actually, the opposite is true because she's selfish and competitive with black women, always wanting everything to be about her. All consuming voracious. narcissitic, pretentious nasty filthy ways. She wants to hurt black women by making herself the better choice when her beauty fades like bananas age so she uses her nordic lies.
The most attractive African men according to these women are Nigerian men yet Nigerian men have one of the smallest average penis size in Africa
The Double Standard of Feminism is Simply Hilarious ! Free Agent Life Style For Life !