I'm happy for men, I'm particular, to think we're scary. That adds to what I've come to recognise as a superpower, that is becoming invisible as we age. Frankly, I quite enjoy the notion of being thought of as a scary old dyke that they don't see coming. I need the space around me for all the fucks I no longer give ✊✊
My working theory is that while all men benefit from the (correct) perception that any man can get violent, many hate that perception. When they get the chance to pretend it’s women who are violent they lean right in - See! Women are just as violent too! Except we really aren’t.
So pick on a subgroup of women. And who better than those uppity bitches who don’t want to have sex with men? Wow! There really must be something wrong with them! They don’t want us and they have the nerve to tell us!! What more evidence do you need?
All I can say to this tongue-in-cheekish piece, and a couple of the more 'manly' comments here, is that women aren't men, and if we go by the statistics rather than the manmade dramas of what lesbians and other women are like, we see that men commit more than 90% of all murders, domestic included, and that women are more likely to be killed by their male partner or ex-partner than by a stranger (and plenty are killed by strangers). Not so for women with female partners or female strangers. Women are even more likely to be killed by our sons than by a stranger, and increasingly so. Our daughters? That happens too, but much more rarely. WOMEN RARELY KILL or seriously injure others, and when we do, it is often in self-defense against a man. You can extrapolate the rates of non-lethal violence from these murder rates, as almost all women killed by their male partners have had a history of being violently abused by them, including broken bones and miscarried babies from a kick or punch to the belly. To suggest lesbians are violent towards each other in anything like this brutal, systematic and culturally sanctioned way (which I know Julie is not doing here, but others are) is to understate the severity and commonness of this classic patriarchal violence against women and the endless excuses made for it, even for the men who kill their partners. The lie that 'women are just as violent' or even more violent than men in the home, is as old, and as dangerous, as the patriarchal hills.
Thank you for pointing that out. From my in-depth research into the murder of homosexuals, I have yet to encounter a case of a lesbian killed by another woman. The only case I recall is Dianne Whipple who savagely murdered when a homophobic, straight woman unleashed her kill dog on her in 2001.
Most certainly some of us have bore witness to domestic abuse within lesbian relationships but I would say that is a very, very low percentage of the lesbian population. Nowhere even close to the domestic violence we see within the heterosexual population.
I appreciate your comment and your expertise on the subject. It is very telling that women don't kill women they are in intimate relationships with, adding further proof to the analysis that domestic violence is largely about male misogyny and resentment of women. I was not aware of the Dianne Whipple murder and looked it up. How horrific that a woman set her 140 pound brute of a dog on this poor woman because her sexuality offended her and watched as it mauled her to death. How vile people with these base prejudices can be. I'd be interested to know your findings on violence between gay male couples. There is no misogyny or male entitlement to control women involved in those relationships, but there is a lot of testosterone.
As to gay men (representing the vast majority of documented murders) I could find none involving what I would call gay male couples. If domestic violence happens in the gay men’s community either they’re not talking about it or it’s virtually non existent. What is highly evident is that some men with internalized homophobia kill other men. But we have know this for a long time - pick up dates that gay men are lured into or incidents where men go out “hunting fags”. What surprised me most was how men killed other men as opposed to female victims. More often than not they acted in packs and with different weapons than what was used to kill women. Many of them were simply savage murders - like it wasn’t enough to just shoot or kill a “fag” with a baseball bat, many men had to go further in their testosterone fueled rage into complete and unspeakable desecration of bodies. Quite different than the way men tend to kill lesbians which usually involves getting up close and personal (ie: stabbing, strangulation) and it was usually one person acting alone. Interestingly lesbians represented less than 20% of the victims at the end of my research. But there was no question 99% of the murders of homosexuals are committed by men. The raison d’etre given for committing the murders fell to religious beliefs in the majority of the cases. Many are quoted as justifying their heinous crimes by religious beliefs through court proceedings or what was written or said by them.
It is also interesting to hear some of the female detransitioners speak about the extreme rage they felt while taking testosterone and their incapacity to cry while being prescribed testosterone. So, yes, I believe we can put violence on biological men.
Whoa! That explains so much. Thank you! Yes, testosterone is a violent hormone, much more so than oestrogen. Even so, my husband of many years is less aggressive than I am. And he's hairy, which usually means high testosterone. Religion has SO much to answer for in its harms to women and gay men. It's so upsetting to know this hate between men continues, when surely we know now that same-sex attraction is natural - unlike trans.
Is gay male intimate partner violence explained away as sadomasochism, though? Let's recall that Boy George, one of the most famous gay men ever, did prison time for beating a young man.
I agree with you. One thing I will say is while I agree you are right that Lesbians are less violent then men, unfortunately, I do know of one case of Lesbian domestic violence. This does not invalidate your point. It just means we need to remember that less violent does not mean no violence (unfortunately).
No doubt it happens. However, the almost non existent killings and serious injuries reported in lesbian relationships does attest to a significant difference in these relationships compared with straight couples where the rate of serious violence and even murder (against the woman) is very high for all cultures, and especially amongst younger couples, no doubt thanks to violent online porn.
I think most lesbians would agree that our relationships tend to be founded on egalitarian principles. Not surprising considering I have rarely met a lesbian who’s not a feminist. Feminism serves men as much as women IMO. If only we could convince more men of this.
I’m not sure whether the spike in violent porn hasn’t always been there (but less visible) or is a newer phenomenon. Looking across the world, for example, at the increase in mass rape being used as an instrument of war, one wonders. But then when haven’t men raped and pillaged during war times?
Having also studied female combatants in civil wars where they fight in sex segregated battalions (ie: Burma), not seeing women do this. While they are as fierce as men and as capable of violence, they’re not running around raping and burning down villages afterwards. More like kill mercifully and advance quickly. Which makes me think women may make better warriors where it doesn’t fall to hand to hand combat.
If you’re interested you should order the film “Gulistan, Terres de Roses” from the National Film Board of Canada which documents Kurdish female fighters. It is quite telling of the differences between the two sexes as it relates to violence and warfare.
Apologies again for my delayed reply. I agree that feminism serves, indeed saves men from themselves, as it serves and saves women, in large part because all the violence men inflict on the women they want to but can't control, believing that is their right and purpose, without destroying them and so their families and themselves, as happens over and over and over again. That's the domestic version (that I have studied), but the political version is much the same, as the trans takeover has shown us. Indeed it is more than a pity that weak men, including my two estranged sons, refuse to see how much the patriarchy warps the world to everyone's cost, and that the feminists trying to expose and correct this warping are not the 'man-hating' enemy but the only hope for everyone's salvation from this fundamental corruption of the natural order. Interesting that you have never met a lesbian who is not a feminist. I've certainly known many straight women who aren't! :( And, to be fair, the trans cult has exposed a fair few lesbians, like Butler, Ruth Hunt, Hannah Gadsby and others who have leapt wholesale into supporting men in Womanface making demands for access to women and girls, even to lesbian spaces and bodies. I will never understand that betrayal. I have no trouble believing that women are less sadistic (and sexist) on the battlefield. Would more women soldiers help? I don't know. We need more women warriors on the home front too. Ah, but it's all such a mighty mess. It's my birthday today, so I'm going to need to drown in a drink soon, then tomorrow we fly off to Sydney (from Auckland) for me to take part in their national stand-up comedy competition, in another attempt to laugh - and make feminist fun of - rather than cry about it all. I might look up those Kurdish fighters after that. Cheers, xx
Well thank you very much, Mary Taylor. I very much appreciate the birthday wish especially. I will indeed nail it on the comedy stage if I can at all help it! Drink(s) done!
A friend of mine - Mary Woronov - played The Warden in a 1983 revival of Eyen’s “Women Behind Bars” a drama of sadistic tough women - including lesbians - Lesbians in prison.
The trope came I to being along with reform schools in 1950’s Pulp Fiction and lurid movies - Caged (1950), 99 Women (1969), Love Camp 7 (1969), Women in Cages (1971), The Big Doll House (1971), The Big Bird Cage (1972), Caged Heat (1974), Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS (1975), Reform School Girls (1986), Chained Heat (1983) (Linda Blair raped with a broom, my god) Bad Girls Dormitory (1986), Prison Heat (1993), Riot in a Women’s Prison (1995), Female Prisoner Scorpion Series (1972-1973), Unnatural Causes (1986).
Then there were the violent female killers - Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill! (1965), Motorpsycho! (1965), She-Devils on Wheels (1968), The Female Bunch (1971), Switchblade Sisters (1975), Coffy (1973), Foxy Brown (1974), Death Race 2000 (1975), Thriller: A Cruel Picture (1973), Lady Snowblood (1973), The Doll Squad (1973), Gator Bait (1974), Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS (1975), Caged Heat (1974), Savage Streets (1984), Ms. 45 (1981), Kill Bill Vol. 1 (2003), Kill Bill Vol. 2 (2004).
I’m quite partial to “Faster Pussycat, Kill Kill” - Tura Satana is otherworldly. I seem to remember Lesbian in “Ilsa She-Wolf of the SS” but I could be wrong. I’m also partial to “Basic Instinct” - a list of all lesbian killer movies would be longer, but not quite the point with gangs.
I write in solidrity as a straight sister who agrees that Lesbians have carried blame, exageration and other people's fear out of all proportion. My obsrvation, as an older person, is that many of the most enduring partnerships are between older lesbians. Many, after a somewhat rocky time as young women ( of course given the prevailing ethos and hsotility) developed a loyalty and insight that has served them well through the years.
The idea of marauding gangs of lesbians with pink Glocks made me laugh out loud! That’s so clearly a male fantasy! I think we’re scary because, over the past few decades, we haven’t walked in step with heteronormativity. We not only march to a different drummer but to so many different drummers it’s hard to pigeonhole us, which is why scaremongering stories become so important, it gives us an identity that straight people can hold on to if they can’t cope with our ‘normality’.
But just because we’re lesbians doesn’t mean there is no violence. I don’t know the extent of it and, in my life, I’ve only been aware of a handful of instances where relationships were violent - but we are not immune from violence or of coercive control - the latter is, possibly, more prevalent. We are human, after all!
Whilst many of us take up the VAWG cause and seek to prevent women and girls from experiencing violence from men in any form, we do well to look in our own backyard as well.
I now think we need a new Netflix series called ‘The Sapphic Ranger’ -she has a pink Glock and knows how to use it.
Hilarious post. Thanks for making me laugh today. It was either that or I feared whipping out my pink glock and opening fire on a male autogynephilic trying to convince me lesbians have penises today. Good Lord, who can take the abuse of being labeled a Nazi, TERF hater much longer?
May we never end up in Prisoner Cell Block H. Super scary. Unless of course it’s like my fav prison TV scene where I get locked up with Jennifer Beals or some hottie.
Hi Juliet, there is quite a lot of existing research which has claimed to find higher rates of domestic violence among gay and lesbian versus straight couples. It's known as SSIPV (same sex intimate partner violence).
The current popular explanation is that 'minority stress' makes people violent, but I'm not sure about that. I wonder if because intimate partner violence services are focused on men who harm women, that is the subset of all couples most likely to receive intervention. Or if you feel like you have less choice of partners in a small town, you are less likely to leave an abusive partner. And maybe you don't trust the police.
Here are ten papers I found by searching for 'lesbian domestic violence minority stress'.
Blooming heck Julie, as if I don’t have enough to worry about without being made aware of hordes of murderous lesbians waving their pink Glocks around intent upon rape pillage and plunder.
I will be vigilant, and report back if any are encountered.
Asking for a friend, are we now obliged to arm up in self defence with pink tinted weapons?
I'm very thankful for the lesbian friends who told me I needn't feel guilty about not being a lesbian, which therapists who my suddenly "trans identifying" husband went to suggested to me. ("to keep your family together") Men who say they are lesbians are violent. Here the link:
While they are not outwardly violent (to others) - All data points to lesbians being more violent in intimate relationships than either gay or cishet. (NCVS June 2022 Bulletin)
The REASON that you may NOT know this is that it is buried in reports like the US National Crime Victimization survey where they do not separate out Gay from Lesbian IPV.
Why? Because it does not fit with feminist theory.
Either way:
The combined IPV for Lesbian/Gay is higher than Cishet
The rate for bisexual women is highest of all.
-------------------------------------
When Intimate Partner Violence
Meets Same Sex Couples: A Review
of Same Sex Intimate Partner
Violence
Luca Rollè, Giulia Giardina*, Angela M. Caldarera, Eva Gerino and Piera Brustia
Despite the myth that
IPV is exclusively an issue in heterosexual relationships, many studies have revealed the
existence of IPV among lesbian and gay couples, and its incidence is COMPARABLE to
(Turell, 2000) OR HIGHER than that among heterosexual couples (Messinger, 2011; Kelley
et al., 2012). While similarities between heterosexual and lesbian, gay, and bisexual
(LGB) IPV were found, unique features and dynamics were present in LGB IPV. Such
features are mainly related to identification and treatment of SSIPV in the community
and to the need of taking into consideration the role of sexual minority stressors
HaHa I believe you may be looking for the Gender Studies department - Where all sense of truth goes to die!
Did you know that in social psychology that the more citatation and the more well known a research claim is that it is many times less likely to replicate compared to the boring old psychology of the past.....
Well, some famous studies are hard to replicate precisely because they are famous. For example you would have a tough time replicating the Stanford Prison Experiment because every psychology student knows the outcome of the original. But is psychology full of quacks? Yes, since day one.
Julie you need a little history. This portrayal of Lesbians is almost identical to the historical demonisation of Jews. Then it was the alleged drinking the blood of Christian children, there's the Shylock fairy tale, and so it went on. The Catholic Church even made one such alleged child victim, namely Simon of Trent into a martyr of the Church. This the Church finally removed in the 20th century - I think Pope Paul was involved in it.
But its the same stuff Julie. Some people who believe these things are psychotic, some are sadists, an entire mixture.
I was thinking we may see an up tick in violent women/lesbians due to testosterone use in young women. Parents of young trans girls on T are reporting an increase of aggression.
I'm happy for men, I'm particular, to think we're scary. That adds to what I've come to recognise as a superpower, that is becoming invisible as we age. Frankly, I quite enjoy the notion of being thought of as a scary old dyke that they don't see coming. I need the space around me for all the fucks I no longer give ✊✊
My working theory is that while all men benefit from the (correct) perception that any man can get violent, many hate that perception. When they get the chance to pretend it’s women who are violent they lean right in - See! Women are just as violent too! Except we really aren’t.
So pick on a subgroup of women. And who better than those uppity bitches who don’t want to have sex with men? Wow! There really must be something wrong with them! They don’t want us and they have the nerve to tell us!! What more evidence do you need?
There could be a bit of masochism going on in those male imaginations, too. A violent, unavailable woman would make a good dominatrix.
All I can say to this tongue-in-cheekish piece, and a couple of the more 'manly' comments here, is that women aren't men, and if we go by the statistics rather than the manmade dramas of what lesbians and other women are like, we see that men commit more than 90% of all murders, domestic included, and that women are more likely to be killed by their male partner or ex-partner than by a stranger (and plenty are killed by strangers). Not so for women with female partners or female strangers. Women are even more likely to be killed by our sons than by a stranger, and increasingly so. Our daughters? That happens too, but much more rarely. WOMEN RARELY KILL or seriously injure others, and when we do, it is often in self-defense against a man. You can extrapolate the rates of non-lethal violence from these murder rates, as almost all women killed by their male partners have had a history of being violently abused by them, including broken bones and miscarried babies from a kick or punch to the belly. To suggest lesbians are violent towards each other in anything like this brutal, systematic and culturally sanctioned way (which I know Julie is not doing here, but others are) is to understate the severity and commonness of this classic patriarchal violence against women and the endless excuses made for it, even for the men who kill their partners. The lie that 'women are just as violent' or even more violent than men in the home, is as old, and as dangerous, as the patriarchal hills.
Thank you for pointing that out. From my in-depth research into the murder of homosexuals, I have yet to encounter a case of a lesbian killed by another woman. The only case I recall is Dianne Whipple who savagely murdered when a homophobic, straight woman unleashed her kill dog on her in 2001.
Most certainly some of us have bore witness to domestic abuse within lesbian relationships but I would say that is a very, very low percentage of the lesbian population. Nowhere even close to the domestic violence we see within the heterosexual population.
I appreciate your comment and your expertise on the subject. It is very telling that women don't kill women they are in intimate relationships with, adding further proof to the analysis that domestic violence is largely about male misogyny and resentment of women. I was not aware of the Dianne Whipple murder and looked it up. How horrific that a woman set her 140 pound brute of a dog on this poor woman because her sexuality offended her and watched as it mauled her to death. How vile people with these base prejudices can be. I'd be interested to know your findings on violence between gay male couples. There is no misogyny or male entitlement to control women involved in those relationships, but there is a lot of testosterone.
As to gay men (representing the vast majority of documented murders) I could find none involving what I would call gay male couples. If domestic violence happens in the gay men’s community either they’re not talking about it or it’s virtually non existent. What is highly evident is that some men with internalized homophobia kill other men. But we have know this for a long time - pick up dates that gay men are lured into or incidents where men go out “hunting fags”. What surprised me most was how men killed other men as opposed to female victims. More often than not they acted in packs and with different weapons than what was used to kill women. Many of them were simply savage murders - like it wasn’t enough to just shoot or kill a “fag” with a baseball bat, many men had to go further in their testosterone fueled rage into complete and unspeakable desecration of bodies. Quite different than the way men tend to kill lesbians which usually involves getting up close and personal (ie: stabbing, strangulation) and it was usually one person acting alone. Interestingly lesbians represented less than 20% of the victims at the end of my research. But there was no question 99% of the murders of homosexuals are committed by men. The raison d’etre given for committing the murders fell to religious beliefs in the majority of the cases. Many are quoted as justifying their heinous crimes by religious beliefs through court proceedings or what was written or said by them.
It is also interesting to hear some of the female detransitioners speak about the extreme rage they felt while taking testosterone and their incapacity to cry while being prescribed testosterone. So, yes, I believe we can put violence on biological men.
Whoa! That explains so much. Thank you! Yes, testosterone is a violent hormone, much more so than oestrogen. Even so, my husband of many years is less aggressive than I am. And he's hairy, which usually means high testosterone. Religion has SO much to answer for in its harms to women and gay men. It's so upsetting to know this hate between men continues, when surely we know now that same-sex attraction is natural - unlike trans.
Is gay male intimate partner violence explained away as sadomasochism, though? Let's recall that Boy George, one of the most famous gay men ever, did prison time for beating a young man.
I agree with you. One thing I will say is while I agree you are right that Lesbians are less violent then men, unfortunately, I do know of one case of Lesbian domestic violence. This does not invalidate your point. It just means we need to remember that less violent does not mean no violence (unfortunately).
No doubt it happens. However, the almost non existent killings and serious injuries reported in lesbian relationships does attest to a significant difference in these relationships compared with straight couples where the rate of serious violence and even murder (against the woman) is very high for all cultures, and especially amongst younger couples, no doubt thanks to violent online porn.
I think most lesbians would agree that our relationships tend to be founded on egalitarian principles. Not surprising considering I have rarely met a lesbian who’s not a feminist. Feminism serves men as much as women IMO. If only we could convince more men of this.
I’m not sure whether the spike in violent porn hasn’t always been there (but less visible) or is a newer phenomenon. Looking across the world, for example, at the increase in mass rape being used as an instrument of war, one wonders. But then when haven’t men raped and pillaged during war times?
Having also studied female combatants in civil wars where they fight in sex segregated battalions (ie: Burma), not seeing women do this. While they are as fierce as men and as capable of violence, they’re not running around raping and burning down villages afterwards. More like kill mercifully and advance quickly. Which makes me think women may make better warriors where it doesn’t fall to hand to hand combat.
If you’re interested you should order the film “Gulistan, Terres de Roses” from the National Film Board of Canada which documents Kurdish female fighters. It is quite telling of the differences between the two sexes as it relates to violence and warfare.
Apologies again for my delayed reply. I agree that feminism serves, indeed saves men from themselves, as it serves and saves women, in large part because all the violence men inflict on the women they want to but can't control, believing that is their right and purpose, without destroying them and so their families and themselves, as happens over and over and over again. That's the domestic version (that I have studied), but the political version is much the same, as the trans takeover has shown us. Indeed it is more than a pity that weak men, including my two estranged sons, refuse to see how much the patriarchy warps the world to everyone's cost, and that the feminists trying to expose and correct this warping are not the 'man-hating' enemy but the only hope for everyone's salvation from this fundamental corruption of the natural order. Interesting that you have never met a lesbian who is not a feminist. I've certainly known many straight women who aren't! :( And, to be fair, the trans cult has exposed a fair few lesbians, like Butler, Ruth Hunt, Hannah Gadsby and others who have leapt wholesale into supporting men in Womanface making demands for access to women and girls, even to lesbian spaces and bodies. I will never understand that betrayal. I have no trouble believing that women are less sadistic (and sexist) on the battlefield. Would more women soldiers help? I don't know. We need more women warriors on the home front too. Ah, but it's all such a mighty mess. It's my birthday today, so I'm going to need to drown in a drink soon, then tomorrow we fly off to Sydney (from Auckland) for me to take part in their national stand-up comedy competition, in another attempt to laugh - and make feminist fun of - rather than cry about it all. I might look up those Kurdish fighters after that. Cheers, xx
Happy Birthday 🥳 🎂, Terf Vibes ! Down that drink 🍷
🍸👍. Good luck in the national comedy competition. You will nail it.
Well thank you very much, Mary Taylor. I very much appreciate the birthday wish especially. I will indeed nail it on the comedy stage if I can at all help it! Drink(s) done!
A friend of mine - Mary Woronov - played The Warden in a 1983 revival of Eyen’s “Women Behind Bars” a drama of sadistic tough women - including lesbians - Lesbians in prison.
The trope came I to being along with reform schools in 1950’s Pulp Fiction and lurid movies - Caged (1950), 99 Women (1969), Love Camp 7 (1969), Women in Cages (1971), The Big Doll House (1971), The Big Bird Cage (1972), Caged Heat (1974), Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS (1975), Reform School Girls (1986), Chained Heat (1983) (Linda Blair raped with a broom, my god) Bad Girls Dormitory (1986), Prison Heat (1993), Riot in a Women’s Prison (1995), Female Prisoner Scorpion Series (1972-1973), Unnatural Causes (1986).
Then there were the violent female killers - Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill! (1965), Motorpsycho! (1965), She-Devils on Wheels (1968), The Female Bunch (1971), Switchblade Sisters (1975), Coffy (1973), Foxy Brown (1974), Death Race 2000 (1975), Thriller: A Cruel Picture (1973), Lady Snowblood (1973), The Doll Squad (1973), Gator Bait (1974), Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS (1975), Caged Heat (1974), Savage Streets (1984), Ms. 45 (1981), Kill Bill Vol. 1 (2003), Kill Bill Vol. 2 (2004).
I’m quite partial to “Faster Pussycat, Kill Kill” - Tura Satana is otherworldly. I seem to remember Lesbian in “Ilsa She-Wolf of the SS” but I could be wrong. I’m also partial to “Basic Instinct” - a list of all lesbian killer movies would be longer, but not quite the point with gangs.
The equation is ridiculously simple.
Men Are Violent
Men Love Women
Men Are People
Ergo
People who Love Women are Violent
It comes and goes every 10-15 years.
I love the way you think
Some men can't handle rejection. Lesbians are walking talking penis-rejectors. Insecure men project all their insecurities onto us.
I write in solidrity as a straight sister who agrees that Lesbians have carried blame, exageration and other people's fear out of all proportion. My obsrvation, as an older person, is that many of the most enduring partnerships are between older lesbians. Many, after a somewhat rocky time as young women ( of course given the prevailing ethos and hsotility) developed a loyalty and insight that has served them well through the years.
As we know, it's men who are violent. I'd say women have to be on guard against men, not against lesbians.
Wnen it comes to intimate relationshipes, there you would be wrong.
https://www.academia.edu/85892649/When_Intimate_Partner_Violence_Meets_Same_Sex_Couples_A_Review_of_Same_Sex_Intimate_Partner_Violence?sm=b
And here - 4 year US National data
https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/violent-victimization-sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity-2017-2020
The idea of marauding gangs of lesbians with pink Glocks made me laugh out loud! That’s so clearly a male fantasy! I think we’re scary because, over the past few decades, we haven’t walked in step with heteronormativity. We not only march to a different drummer but to so many different drummers it’s hard to pigeonhole us, which is why scaremongering stories become so important, it gives us an identity that straight people can hold on to if they can’t cope with our ‘normality’.
But just because we’re lesbians doesn’t mean there is no violence. I don’t know the extent of it and, in my life, I’ve only been aware of a handful of instances where relationships were violent - but we are not immune from violence or of coercive control - the latter is, possibly, more prevalent. We are human, after all!
Whilst many of us take up the VAWG cause and seek to prevent women and girls from experiencing violence from men in any form, we do well to look in our own backyard as well.
I now think we need a new Netflix series called ‘The Sapphic Ranger’ -she has a pink Glock and knows how to use it.
Hilarious post. Thanks for making me laugh today. It was either that or I feared whipping out my pink glock and opening fire on a male autogynephilic trying to convince me lesbians have penises today. Good Lord, who can take the abuse of being labeled a Nazi, TERF hater much longer?
May we never end up in Prisoner Cell Block H. Super scary. Unless of course it’s like my fav prison TV scene where I get locked up with Jennifer Beals or some hottie.
Does anyone @juliebindel have the link to this "new research data"? I would be happy to combine through it for you. (Scientist MD here)
Hi Juliet, there is quite a lot of existing research which has claimed to find higher rates of domestic violence among gay and lesbian versus straight couples. It's known as SSIPV (same sex intimate partner violence).
The current popular explanation is that 'minority stress' makes people violent, but I'm not sure about that. I wonder if because intimate partner violence services are focused on men who harm women, that is the subset of all couples most likely to receive intervention. Or if you feel like you have less choice of partners in a small town, you are less likely to leave an abusive partner. And maybe you don't trust the police.
Here are ten papers I found by searching for 'lesbian domestic violence minority stress'.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12144-024-05622-4
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10840671/
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-6402.2005.00220.x
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J015v23n03_03
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10826-017-0734-4
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0361684313517866
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12119-022-10046-y
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2005-10472-004
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1363460716681491
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2016-10048-001
I'm not putting down lesbians at all, I just think they have a right to be free from domestic violence like anyone else. Perhaps research will help.
Blooming heck Julie, as if I don’t have enough to worry about without being made aware of hordes of murderous lesbians waving their pink Glocks around intent upon rape pillage and plunder.
I will be vigilant, and report back if any are encountered.
Asking for a friend, are we now obliged to arm up in self defence with pink tinted weapons?
I'm very thankful for the lesbian friends who told me I needn't feel guilty about not being a lesbian, which therapists who my suddenly "trans identifying" husband went to suggested to me. ("to keep your family together") Men who say they are lesbians are violent. Here the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frffv2sB8zE
Sorry to be the bearer of BAD NEWS..
While they are not outwardly violent (to others) - All data points to lesbians being more violent in intimate relationships than either gay or cishet. (NCVS June 2022 Bulletin)
The REASON that you may NOT know this is that it is buried in reports like the US National Crime Victimization survey where they do not separate out Gay from Lesbian IPV.
Why? Because it does not fit with feminist theory.
Either way:
The combined IPV for Lesbian/Gay is higher than Cishet
The rate for bisexual women is highest of all.
-------------------------------------
When Intimate Partner Violence
Meets Same Sex Couples: A Review
of Same Sex Intimate Partner
Violence
Luca Rollè, Giulia Giardina*, Angela M. Caldarera, Eva Gerino and Piera Brustia
Despite the myth that
IPV is exclusively an issue in heterosexual relationships, many studies have revealed the
existence of IPV among lesbian and gay couples, and its incidence is COMPARABLE to
(Turell, 2000) OR HIGHER than that among heterosexual couples (Messinger, 2011; Kelley
et al., 2012). While similarities between heterosexual and lesbian, gay, and bisexual
(LGB) IPV were found, unique features and dynamics were present in LGB IPV. Such
features are mainly related to identification and treatment of SSIPV in the community
and to the need of taking into consideration the role of sexual minority stressors
That may be true, but how many violent lesbians and bisexuals in these statistics are in fact male?
They are asked to self identify in the NCVS survey but answer is likely almost zero. Especially as data is 2017-2000, pre-peak woke.
There definitely seem to be more male lesbians around than there used to be. Personally I think they've been on the increase for more than ten years.
HaHa I believe you may be looking for the Gender Studies department - Where all sense of truth goes to die!
Did you know that in social psychology that the more citatation and the more well known a research claim is that it is many times less likely to replicate compared to the boring old psychology of the past.....
https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/replication-crisis/
Worse still - the Social Psychologists keep quoting those same shitty studies - promulgating nonsense....
Well, some famous studies are hard to replicate precisely because they are famous. For example you would have a tough time replicating the Stanford Prison Experiment because every psychology student knows the outcome of the original. But is psychology full of quacks? Yes, since day one.
Julie you need a little history. This portrayal of Lesbians is almost identical to the historical demonisation of Jews. Then it was the alleged drinking the blood of Christian children, there's the Shylock fairy tale, and so it went on. The Catholic Church even made one such alleged child victim, namely Simon of Trent into a martyr of the Church. This the Church finally removed in the 20th century - I think Pope Paul was involved in it.
But its the same stuff Julie. Some people who believe these things are psychotic, some are sadists, an entire mixture.
Ian Mordant
Hi Julie, could all this testosterone being sold to women have an influence on violence between them, do you think?
I was thinking we may see an up tick in violent women/lesbians due to testosterone use in young women. Parents of young trans girls on T are reporting an increase of aggression.
In particular ffs